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(Evo II) CBR900RR "W.B.R.W."

60K views 291 replies 46 participants last post by  RatFighter 
#1 ·
Yup, it's that time. A new thread for the continued build documentation. Suspension and styling this time!

As it was finished after almost a year of cleanup and planning:
WBRW Evo I



The day I bought it:




FOTM entry:












As of current, I am doing the fat tire stage of the build with a SSSA and 240 rear, and 180-200 front. 18/16 diameter as a throw back to the days when race replica's were first appearing fully clothed in all the track bred glory of the mid 80's. At this juncture styling is the key ingredient to the build. My desire is not only a caricature of a motorcycle, but also a decent representation of the 80's super standards that were so far overlooked mere years after the glory days of big engines in little bikes. Think CB700SC or CB1100F. :)


I went through a staggering amount of parts, time, and money to only figure out I needed a VFR SSSA all along. But not to be defeated, I picked up a VFR800 unit, rather than the usual VFR750 setup that is the standard of the SSSA 'blades. Evo II could finally begin with the correct components. So here I am sipping my coffee making the thread to document the continued evolution of the Wisconsin Back Road Weapon.



After getting home from picking up the new bits, I had to see where it would all fit.











The past 24 hours rendered success in the form of a fully functioning mock fitment of the wheel and swingarm on the mighty Fireblade. Small amounts of finishing work and I'm ready for lug posts and a tire! :)







As Sideshowbob said describing his orange monstrosity, "The chain is a gnats ass from the frame.".

Indeed!










And in all the glory that is the 240 shod SSSA 'blade. :party-smiley:

 
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#257 ·
Wow, all I can say is that a lot has changed over the years. Every time I'm in the shop I see that poor old 900RR frame on the shelf, way off in the back, begging me to source an engine... the 350F engine is STILL rock solid stuck, may as well make a coffee table out of the stupid thing at this point. The best intentions never came to fruition when it came to a high revving middle weight screamer in the 900. I tried to find a crossplane R1 engine, but, prices just aren't going to budge on them, I found a '07 R6 that was a mangled mess with a good engine but the guy was weird about giving me his number so I gave up on that...

...and I just can't fall in love with this Ninja 650 chassis I've been riding unicycle mode on for a few years now...

...the 2am thoughts as I lay in bed trying to sleep...

...the noise in my head that keeps me awake...

"The EFI shod 650 twin would be the perfect weight/power in a true back road weapon... I've got everything but a suitable swingarm to fit those PM Chicane wheels and exotic carbon fiber bodywork...".


I finally pulled the trigger on a swingarm that will match the polished aluminum and carbon fiber monstrosity I see in my head. Stay tuned for updates on this bike as the final evolution of WBRW is in the works. :D
 
#259 ·
:rock:

When the man himself replies to a thread, it gets that fighting spirit going and inspired me to start taking inventory of the build in the past days when I'm not busy as hell with everything else that I should be doing. :D



Dunno what in the world I was thinking having NEVER measured the 650 engine and the 900 frame... but wouldn't you know it, engine mount to engine mount on the twin spar is 16" on the 650... and 16" on the 900RR. The devil in the details will be offsetting the counter shaft sprocket to suit the 200 section rear tire on the 6 (.5?) inch wheel though. It's a squeeze to get the ZX6R 180 out back on the 650, so the big ass PM Chicane will undoubtedly involve a little machining.

Thankfully the years here at CF have been good to me and I'm neither worried, or challenged by fitting this stuff together.

I'm seriously considering keeping the 60T rear sprocket though, the whiptastic acceleration under 60mph was incredibly fun, lofting front wheel on the power in 3rd (and 4th, and even 5th over hill crests!) made the 650 feel way, way more powerful than it really is. It still tapped out at 92mph in 6th, so, plenty to make the city feel real small. (late night ghost rider mode found that out a few summers ago... I've still got the GPS screenshot somewhere. :cops: )

Overall, I think I've got everything I need to do this in a rather timely fashion. Shame I didn't get this all together for the winter buildoff, but, I didn't expect to have the means to do this in the first place. Is there an entry deadline? Or just an end point deadline? I'll have to do some searching I guess.

Swingarm arrives tomorrow, woman's off work at 4pm, my brother is off work at 4pm, so, I've got all evening to start putting parts together and maybe, if I'm lucky, have a really fucking spectacular looking roller by midnight if I put the gas pedal to the metal and really hurry on digging up the stuff I have scattered all over my shop that relates to this particular build.
 
#260 ·
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#262 ·
Even if rep doesn't mean much around here anymore, you deserve it, this sorta part knowledge drives this community to new heights regularly. :rock:




lathe and a welder , offset sprockets are easy enough, offset enough and outrigger bearing is a good shout

My little baby lathe can't handle tooling that'll eat through a sprocket. Tried, gave up. Need a bigger lathe for that sorta thing.

I don't know what they make sprockets out of, but they just ignore Chinese mini lathes. :LolLolLolLol:




Got a swingarm in the mail, the suspension linkage is close enough that I could bolt a roller together. I felt an emotional connection with a bike for the first time since like 2010. This 900 is going to be something special for me as a rider and a builder. The build off may be possible with the rest of the crap I have to throw at this thing as an ultimate back road machine.
















:fu:
 
#263 ·
Wow, that thing is looking good.... and I made a bunch of REALLY, seriously, total fucking YOLO decisions recently. I'm at a point where it's like, "Why do I even do this?!", and then the thought sets in, "Because nobody else does....", and I accept my fate with the utmost disdain and frustration that I can muster. How hard it must be to be me... :D


Anyway, fellow fighterers, I found a Power Commander 5 for less than retail with everything it comes with out of the box (and bought it, knowing there would be another few things on the shopping list)... meaning, fuel, spark, and boost/vac reference and adjustment... why would I need boost/vac? Because the turbo 650 guys are fools, pure and total idiots... these engines need not a turbocharger, they need a roots 'fuckin' blower. :rock:

85whp is the goal on STOCK head, cam, piston, stroke, etc.. No need for anymore than that, and by calculation, the AMR300 roots supercharger should be running at 75% efficiency where I am aiming for. Once the long hand math is done, I'll likely have a good formula for what can be applied to the 650R. My results will likely vary from others, but, it'll be interesting to finally see a proper supercharged twin that isn't aircooled and/or setup for drag racing.


On to the pictures! (Supercharger not included... literally, it's still in transit... sorry. :( )


I got busy, with a lot of shit, this is just a few things among it all, finally got my gear rack/shelf/hanger stuff mounted after finishing the office.






Not sure I'll enter the buildoff as this is going to be a process. Reduced the 650 to nearly almost nothing.








Engine mock fitted to the 900 chassis...




 
#264 ·
Not really any process pics as I've been waiting on parts and getting through the holidays as a family man this go around. Oddly fun to put a focus on that instead of trying to find out who's not busy and wants to use the holidays as an excuse to party.


Anyhow, I tracked down a Power Commander 5 (considered a 3, but the adjustment range was just too small), and with the way this thing wires, adding on the appropriate quickshifter components will be a breeze. And, it supports boost/vac reference as far as I read. There's also an ignition addon, or it's built in, I've no clue, there's a shop that's going to do the dyno/tune work anyway (they know a thing or two about supercharged 650 twins too, hence why I would outsource anything at all) so I don't have to prolong this shitshow getting on the road once all the mechanical spinny boosty bits are twirling away at idle and low rpm pulls since I can at least bump up the fuel with the PC5 and get a few shakedown runs in before it gets a full custom map. Depending on how a few test rides go I may spring for more adjustability, but I'm pretty sure I'm running conservative enough to keep with stock(ish) ignition timing.


One of the most unexpected builds I've ever undertaken, and one of the weirdest turns I think any of my builds have taken... I think this really comes from the fact I was cool with the whole 650 twin in a sport type bike thing, the Honda Hawk and Suzuki SV do that job fantastically, so sticking an even higher revving twin in an even more aggressive frame/suspension/wheel/everything and THEN, add a damn roots blower to it just to make sure you have enough power on tap at ANY rpm or speed or gear... well that's just the right thing to do when you have it all right there.





Pic of the engine position, versus the blower placed simply on top of the valve cover with the pulley aligned with the potential location of the crank pulley.






I do believe I have my pulley ratio's correct, still have to run numbers a little more, but I am pretty sure I've come out to a pair of different size 17mm bore, (keyway and bolt) alternator pulleys in 8 groove, the belt that goes with it is 1.2" width, respectively. So it'll have a big, fat, wide drive belt with an idler and tensioner keeping everything in tension to prevent any slip since a motorcycle engine spins rather fast.



Big 'ol pulleys, definitely going to look the part of serious. That twin screw should make enough noise to be impressive in itself anyway, but, gotta let everyone know it's not just some, "650 swap where a far larger, more powerful engine should be".:rock:
 
#265 ·
Okay, so the idea here is that it's much better to run the throttle plate before the supercharger rather than after to prevent surging... noted... may as well dig up something suitable for the airflow requirements, got that covered, on to making it all play nice with each other.

Figured out the boost reference for the PC5, gonna be super easy, more Toyota parts abound with a 3 bar map sensor as the 0-5v reference on the analog port of the PC5, boost reference via electronic measurement that adds fuel per pound of boost as mapped. Super neat stuff EFI can do. :D

I have a big amount of space to work with, but as well all know, that space becomes a precious premium of real estate in a huge hurry when packaging everything on a bike in hopes of a clean final product. This machine, despite its size, will undoubtedly become no different than the rest. Plotting the plumbing for two 90's from the throttle body to the supercharger, and then from the supercharger to intercooler up front, and then back over the valve cover to the plenum, into the old throttle bodies that will be sans throttle plates and electronics aside from fuel injectors, it becomes awful apparent there's going to be a bundle of tube and wire underneath the faux tank.


This will juuuuuuuust fit into the twin spar and put the air filter where it will have a duct that ensures it has an irresponsible level of access to fresh airflow.


Despite the initial reaction to the size, at 70% overdriven, on this particular engine, calculation comes out with a 72% efficiency at 5.4psi. Just on the verge of a hot air pump, about as much as the stock engine can handle, and well within the ability of the PC5.


The volume this roots blower can move is the key to the setup, the AMR500 just wasn't going to do what I expect of this thing, short sprints or cold weather riding is where this thing will really shine, pretty much all I do anymore anyway.


Still kind of surprised that I finally just gave in on this build and did exactly what my shit talking about it with the guys was all about. Roots blower, light weight, exotic parts, fighter, geared to be a total weapon between 0-103mph, where it tops out at. The all around right bike for the kind of work I want it to do. A tool in the hands of a hooligan.


What a wild mock fitment so far. Next up date will have pulleys and bearing/idler/tensioner.
 
#268 ·
Curious about that, myself!

Kinda surprised to see Ben with the pulley on the clutch side of the engine. It seems you could come through the stator/flywheel cover without too much drama. Seems coming off the clutch could be complicated. But maybe the blower needs to rotate in a certain direction due to gear cuts? EDIT: nvmd on reversing rotation...it's a screw blower :doh:

Unless....does that large port with the flat head slot go direct to the crank?
 
#267 ·
I only have limited experience with superchargers from car days. Your coment about putting the throttle blade after the blower to prevent surging got my attention.

For typical car engine setups, as I'm sure you know, the carb(s) go on top of a roots style blower and are famous for surging. I loved the sound, but it does suck if there's a clutch behind it and a need for drivability. No need for drivability on a drag car, definitely need for a bike. But the centrifugal supers guys have pretty much all gone to ( street guys) are mounted like an accessory ( alertnator,etc) and blow through the carb/ throttle body. Apparently they are much easier to prevent with than the old school roots blowers.

Now, that could be due to the constant, smooth pulses coming from a centrifugal style blower vs an old two lobe roots blower taking big gulps here and there. I really don't know, but I found that interesting.
 
#270 ·
I wonder if the cam drive is robust enough to run the blower off of a cam
 
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#272 ·
Motohorho is actually where I got the mounting idea from, the ignition trigger wheel is robust enough, and has a keyway, to handle welding up a bit of machining handy work to it that sticks through a brearing that will be in place of the slotted inspection plug. Blower drive strait from the crank, long bolt to hold it all on, easiest way to do it. ;)

As far as the throttle body, after reading a little more, I think I was going about it the way that it was outlined in the rather old publication that I was reading years and years ago... having the butterflies between blower and engine (with the appropriate bypass valve) would indeed be the way to go. I figure there is enough supercharged GSXR's out there to pull info from with the way they do it with EFI and a supercharger. Not having to run a big old car throttle body would definitely make packaging this stuff a lot easier. I really was going at this the old school way like the drag guys did back in the day. Fuel injection has made this a completely different ball game.




Timing gear:





I'm also running a belt tensioner and if need be, an idler pulley as well. It is about 36 inches of belt, but, it fits in the frame on that side, and puts the blower in a position that inlet and outlet as well as mounting isn't a problem, so, off to machine up a bunch of shit, order pulleys and get a final measurement for the belt, and start fabricating engine mounting parts.




Toni (motohorho) built Cruel Handjob, and his solutions for running a supercharger were really the best way to go about it.

 
#273 ·
Really surprised to see these smooth belts vs ribbed belts. An automotive style roots blowers you only see smooth belts on places where pop-off valves are a good idea. You'll get a smooth belt instead of ribbed in Marine applications where the engine lives in an enclosure and setting a smooth belt to slip at certain boost levels is how you control over-charging in place of a pop-off.

Are the screw just so smooth compared to a lobe style blower that it doesn't pulse and slip? Or is it just the smaller sizes in general that makes smooth belts possible? Ribbed belts are noisy as fuck.
 
#274 ·
It's mainly the availability that drives the decision to use a smooth belt, measuring a bunch of timing belts and finding appropriate size pulleys for the application just seems like a process I would rather go after long down the road. As well as that, I figure tuning and initial testing would go smoother if there is some slip to the belt should anything go awry and cause issue when the throttle is closed. At this point, the cheaper the better.

My stupid ass couldn't resist temptation and bought a '98 E39 BMW 528i that needed some work to daily for the time being while I prep a pretty hot 350ci and 4 speed to drop into it... that's a cage fighter thread for the future though. Planning on going to a burnout comp that happens annually just north of where I grew up, and mop the floor with the competition that usually shows up with drift cars and pickup trucks. A car built specifically (like the Aussies) to destroy tires has been on the bucket list for longer than I want to admit to.



Even dumber of me, maybe not? I bought a '06 Buell Ulysses XB12X. I miss having a "put a leg over and ride", daily rider... the 650 was supposed to be that. Oops. I've never had a Harley or a Buell, and I have fond memories of my dad bike shopping and the decision coming down to either a Ulysses, or, a V-Strom 1000... he bought the Suzuki, but, I think he may have been happier with the Buell. I suppose I'll find out what the obsession with the XB series is, come spring time. Perfect machine to enjoy, or turn over to a good friend that isn't terribly enthusiastic about his '06 Yamaha TW200... but is already loving the Buell in the shop. If I'm not thrilled with the 1200, I'll swap for a 200. :D
 
#278 ·
Did the coolant bleeding thing, got heat kicking out of the vents, it started to snow and my brother came over so we "ran to the store" (as far as the woman was concerned) and I got a hell of a street drifting session in with it (reminding myself why I weld ALL the differentials in my trucks and cars :D), found that indeed there is no rear brake function, yikes... been a good 13 years since I had a rear wheel drive 6 cylinder car this bad.

I'm not sure that with the electrical issues, and the goofball shit Germany does when they design a car, that I'll really go much farther with it as it is, but if anything specific pops up I'll be sure to drop a line and ask some questions. As far as I'm concerned though, there isn't much left to do with it aside from a few more shakedowns and then get to stripping the good stuff to sell, and toss the rest in the scrap heap in favor of getting on with the 350 swap as soon as it warms back up in the north.

I do have to say though, this engine is an animal! Makes my (tuned) Toyota 5M and 7M's feel like total dogs by comparison. I wish I was more into the German stuff as this thing pulls so hard. Making all sorts of shapes in a strait line in freezing drizzle, and no matter the gear or the speed, it'll hang the rear end out consistently on an on ramp in the wet without a question about it. Why these cars aren't more common in the drift scene is a mystery to me, feels like a big Lexus/Toyota sedan, but, not sloppy or cheap. Even the steering angle allows some really bold moves to be pulled without running out of angle before a correction can be made.



Ok this is fucking cool.
That was my first thought when I finally pulled the 900 frame out of storage and started pulling a tape measure across things. The fact that I've been eyeing up the AMR superchargers for years, and finally have a suitable application for one, seems a match made in the mind of a mad man. :D



Cool deal with the Buell. I'm also not a bog fan, but would like to try one out. And I feel you on the " throw a leg over and ride bike". I picked up a FZ07 for this purpose and have not regretted it at all. Though I have to admit I don't build like I used to now.
It got to the same point for me, I guess over a decade of inhaling aluminum and steel dust, welding smoke, and burnt rubber finally got to me and I wanted an easy bike. The more I poke around the Buell though, the less interest I'm having in it, and the more interest I'm having in the TW200... the same is happening with my buddy that owns the TW... he traded off a Sportster for it and has regretted it since, and the Buell is pretty much everything the Sporty wasn't, so I get the feeling I'll end up building a little trail/stunt bike out of the tee-dub for the sake of having something on the level of my brothers road legal '01 XR100 supermoto I was rocking the weekend cruise nights with last summer. Tossing a leg over that thing and then riding 4th gear sitdown coasters at 35-40mph in traffic (the tuner car guys were loving it) emboldened my stupid ass to get a better setup with a handbrake so I can actually drag bar and do seat standers.





So, an update on the 650/900 swap. I finally got the shop cleared up again, my C30 project is off to the side, the BMW is obviously done enough to get out of the way as well and back into the driveway, and I found a buyer for the majority of the 650 crap I don't need anymore, so, it's back to getting the 900 roller on stands again and start making rear engine mount plates, get some measurements, and build the front engine mounts/cage (yes, cage, it's the only way to describe the structure that needs to be fabricated to utilize the stock front mounts of the engine and frame) so I can finalize the engine/supercharger/chain/belt positions.

Once everything is fitted and finalized, the next step involves cutting the bottom out of one of the two junk 900 tanks I have and utilizing the real estate that isn't spoken for by intake and supercharger, to fit up the fuel system. I've got an aeromotive rising rate fuel pressure regulator, a Walbro pump, and a few other things from my ventures with turbocharging over the years so I can just pluck some stuff off the shelf and get to the gritty fabrication part of this mess. Making a fuel tank may end up being a bit more complicated than originally intended, and have a bit less capacity than originally planned, but, with the space between engine and rear suspension I may be able to fit at least 2.5 gallons at the bare minimum, hoping for 3.2-4 though as that'll be enough to hang with the liter bike guys between fill ups range wise. At this point in the planning and measuring, fuel will be midship on the bike though, and running some baffling in the tank to keep fuel slosh to a minimum will make for one very balanced bike in the long run of it all. I'm starting to feel like this thing will be a masterpiece, a culmination of years of working it out the hard way. Building a bike is like a game of chess, if you aren't thinking a few steps ahead, you are bound to run into something you didn't foresee could be an issue.


*Edit*
My brother bought a plasma cutter, so as soon as I have measurements, I can have things sorted out and fitted in quite a quick fashion. The old grind, mill, sand, drill, and grind some more is a thing of the past. Thank fuck for that. I'm sick and tired of listening to a grinder whizzing away while an air compressor blasts my conscious to smithereens as I concentrate on not eating away too much material. Not to mention the cost of cutoff wheels and flap disks was getting to a point it was starting to outweigh NOT having a plasma cutter. Onward and upward. :)
 
#276 ·
Ok this is fucking cool.
 
#280 ·
Well, not being able to upload shit to Imgur as of current, there's not much of an update on the 900/650.

After driving it a bit, I can safely say I hate the BMW more than ever (it just feels like putting a left shoe on the right foot, it just doesn't feel "right"), and the more research I do, the less I want to do much more than put it up for trade/sale and find a more suited car to fill the need for a 4 door. My Toyota roots keep dragging me toward a Lexus LS400 (W58 5 speed swapped of course)… I don't even know anymore. This whole viral pandemic shit is tossing wrenches into the gears of my summer. Maybe it's time to just accept defeat on the car front and pull my C10 cab out of the corner, the big ass sheet of Chevy body steel I have saved, and start patching it up for a later project. Been a bit since I did bodywork like that, it is tedious, but really satisfying when you finally shoot some primer on it and see a smooth section of body that used to have a big old rusty hole in it. Nothing but time at this point.



As stated in the GS500 chop thread, since things are all fubar with shipping and such, and I'm ultra high risk with this virus, ordering in the last of the parts for the supercharger seems like a gamble on exposure, so, I may forge the bridgehead into unknown territory without forced induction for the time being and just keep working with my original measurements to keep space for a belt and pulleys. The PC5 should support an initial tune on bare velocity stacks and a custom exhaust just to get some miles in on the thing. I'm stoked to ride the WBRW again, regardless of the tune/engine. Those PM Chicanes and the revamped suspension has me pretty excited to get a leg over it again.
 
#281 ·
Figured out Imgur… sorta. Here's a current pic of the daily. Big ass rear tires were all I could find in the storage at my buddies shop. All the hot cars around the area see this thing take off from stop lights and watch with great intent as they expect it to squat down and just rocket off into the distance... no such luck with a bog stock 235k mile engine and a stock automatic transmission that doesn't seem too healthy. :D

 
#282 ·
Well, when it rains it pours. Been borrowing my brothers rowdy Audi S4 (300+hp at all four wheels @ 26psi of boost) while I sort my diesel rig and figure out what to do with this damn BMW that developed a misfire and slipped farther into regularly starting in 2nd gear. Bleh, I give up on German cars for cheap. Gotta spend money to have a nice one I guess.



Banging on with the CB650RR, It's time to cut the frame in ways that make it incapable of accepting a CBR engine ever again. No matter how I look at it, there's just no other way to keep the weight down to something reasonable. As soon as I have some time to dig up the frame jig and get things over to my brothers shop where he's setup with a Tig and plenty of supply, I'll start getting some new pics of the process. Gotta get the rear sprocket off the PM Chicane and order a suitable 520 rear sprocket. Found a place that makes them to order up to 70T, and down to 32T, off to gearingcommander.com for a reasonable balance of 2nd gear power wheelies, and top speed capability for that oh so sweet back road hoonage. Then it's onto suitable tires once this thing is ready for the road.
 
#287 ·
figure out what to do with this damn BMW that developed a misfire and slipped farther into regularly starting in 2nd gear
if the engine isnt running properly the trans will act funny. if you can get a scan of the engine and trans codes I can probably get you some info to get it running better (or at least good enough to sell).
 
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