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Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

21K views 194 replies 26 participants last post by  RatFighter 
#1 ·
It's fucking dumb.

I spent a shit load of money on one... Guess what I realized? You have to be criminally insane. They sucks to ride, they blow up, you still have no bottom end, and to do it right its fucking expensive (still guarantees nothing).

Dont do it, stop asking me about it. That is all.
 
#7 ·
It smells like asshole in here???



I missed you Stunt, glad you're back... ;)
 
#9 ·
I agree, building anything turbocharged on a budget is insanity. I blew through a few thousand in a matter of a month working out a turbo system on a car. Learned really fast that you gotta indeed "pay to play".




I found 2 very distinct things about people that can even comprehend the level of commitment to little gain a turbo system on a small bike brings.

A) You have to be well connected and know your shit.


B) You have to have money and know how to spend it in a wise way or you will end up with expensive paper weights in a huge hurry. Even if you huck thousands at the build of a turbo system, it doesn't say anything about success in the long run.





As for being insane to even try it? I gotta agree. Like I said, it takes some real commitment to little gain and alot of work for next to nothing. Only point I would have in something like that is the few hours it runs sweet as fuck and rips shit like crazy. It would be like building a sophisticated nuke device, it took thousands of hours to complete, and in 30 seconds it's all over. But could you imagine how you would feel when the desert sky lights up? Well, probably, you have built a small displacement turbo bike. ;)
 
#11 ·
Depends on what your talking little? 500-600cc? 250cc? Pocket bikes/scooters 49-150cc?

90% of the turbo bikes ive seen have been hack builds. Ebay turbos that blow up within a month or less, homemade turbo headers and intakes that look like a retarded monkey welded them, and no thought whatsoever to the fuel requirements/mapping/timing needed to properly tune a turbo setup.

As far as small turbos i wouldnt turbo anything less than 250cc, although i had a guy want me to turbo his 150cc scooter one time until he found out it was going to be alot more than anticipated since i dont do hack jobs... One thing people fail to take into account is the parts availability/support of certain bikes. Sure you cant turbo a 250 ninja but since nobody offers aftermarket connecting rods and forged low compression pistons for it(to my knowledge), then you better do your homework and see what rods/pistons you can use from another bike with similar specs on those parts if you want to keep the engine together, just to point out a couple obvious(to me) points.

Im turboing a 500cc thumper and adding homebrew fuel injection with microsquirt and ive done ALOT of research on turboing a single cylinder bike as its an entirely different ballgame from the run of the mill busa turbo setup... Ive got the turbo being built right now, a Garrett(no ebay turbo for me), the head is getting sent out next week to be CNC ported and larger exhaust valve installed, im also getting the head O-ringed at the cylinder and also at the intake since ill be running high boost.

The main point is to do a ton of research and talk to every person you can who has ever turboed anything if you want something that will stay together and be as much fun a year down the road as it is the day its built. Just my .02c
 
#12 ·
Everything should be turbo'd, and what the fuck is a budget?




:twocents:
 
#13 ·
This is...
Id say turboing anything for under $5k out the door IS budgeting...
I have a tad over 4K in my turbo GS build including the bike. I am sure it is not to everyones liking and I cut every corner when it came to aesthetics but it is a turboed Suzuki none the less.
 
#21 ·
Kid's toys are great for daily drivers, I've built 200hp 1.8l VW Rabbits before, crazy fun little cars, but when it comes to layin' it down, yuh just can't beat a big block with a roots style blower or a big shot of NOS!

It's like comparing a 600 to a Literbike, the 600 will outcorner the big beasts, but when it comes down to WFO until you see God, the Literbike wins hands down:D
 
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#23 ·
Budget, this is why I didnt bother trying to tubo my project bike...I went and bought a factory turbo bike instead lol. saved me a TON of time/money :)
 
#37 ·
This validates the gist of how individuals can stick to a budget... There is a standard that has been very apparent here on CF. I've seen threads where OG's walk a noob through an issue. Weeks later same noob, disseminates OG's informations in order to help another noob that suffers a similar issue..

If we keep this stigma of turbos costing buukuu fuckin bucks, were not gonna see many people attempting such projects...
 
#49 ·
I've quickly found in the turbocharging world there are experts, assholes, and nobodies. Assholes can know their shit, or just be belligerent. Arguing with one on the subject of turbocharging is not a good idea. I was told by a friend that I couldn't "comprehend" how a blow through turbo system works.

A week later, we had another conversation and he couldn't believe how incredibly simple it was, the math involved to figure pitot tube size is idiotic simple and takes some trial and error if you don't have a knowledgeable source. Where is it placed in the intake charge pipe? Well, it's defeated some of the greatest minds I have known in the forced induction world locally, but once again, if you experiment and talk to someone that is well versed in such things, the nickle and dime shit is all you worry about.




Connections make a 100% difference in turbo costs. I may talk a pretty big game about knowing my way around a compressor, but it's the priceless connections I've made and maintained through my years as a motorcycle rider/builder that allows me to go pick through parts bins, talk shop with some of the more gifted minds in the industry, and allows me the freedom to create whatever my budget can handle, all because, all I gotta do is ask. ;)



Local turbo guru #1, Bill Whisenant of Motorcycle Performance, turbo bike builder extraordinaire.



Gotta have some thick skin to talk turbo's with Bill, but he is a great guy. Built alot of forced bikes and alot of race bikes, specializes in Ducati's. Was working on a supercharged Hyosung GT250R a few years ago, and I quote, "It was giant waste of time once it blew up the 3rd time on the dyno!!".





Local turbo nuts #2 is retired drag bike builder Arnie Heller. He still has enough years left in him to talk some shop and still has some go-fast bits he would let go for the right price, including an old Mr. Turbo system for a air/oil Suzuki, amongst many, many other cool parts related to boosted bikes. Been itching to go chat with him at the end of the month, see what kinda deal I can strike for a few scavenge pumps. :)



^^ Back in the 80's the local motorcycle scrap yard owner did this with the help of gasoline engine turbo guru Arnie "King Pin" Heller to reach 9 world records their rookie year in funnybike.


Mr. Heller has this sitting amongst his toybox he calls a shop:






Over 30psi, nitrous injected, tons of billet bits, top secret pistons and cam setup, it really isn't a KZ900 engine anymore. :)



Unless your well connected, don't expect things to come easy, or cheap. Even then, you still have to pay your dues where it counts, know the right people, and be financially well off enough to "pay to play".


The turbo world is ugly, unforgiving, and expensive. I want more turbo bikes on the road as much as the next guy, but look at ME, I am better connected than 90% of the people I know, I afford rent, a car, a few motorcycles, and beer every friday, but I still can't afford to spend the nickle and dime of a turbo bike just yet. Hell, I've got a few thousand budgeted and can't pull off all the basic parts needed to just get rolling on plumbing everything together for the eventuality of boost.





If you want to get into turbocharging, start with EFI cars. Much more forgiving. ;)
 
#54 ·
I wanna turbo my George Foreman grill so it makes burgers faster. And I wanna do it for under $100.
 
#56 ·
I look at it like this

the guys that spend $1500-2000 are the guys that upgrade knowing later down the road they might have to dump more money into the bike.

the guys that spend 5K are making "set it and forget it" bikes.


I've read more on turbos systems on bikes then i would like to remember.

My take is if i dump $1500-2000 into a bike and its not "done" then forget it, $1500-2000 is going to tax me for some time. (my bike budget is my spare money budget which goes into a lot of other things)

Forget all of this turbo shit. I'd sooner get a N02 system that will inject at full throttle.
 
#57 ·
I would have to agree with about 99% of what you guys (the turbo guys) are saying, but at the same time you can build a turbo bike for under 5K including the bike.....I have one in my garage.
However with that being said I have had my fair share of problems also, but not do to financial short cuts its because it was my first turbo build and a hell of learning experience.

If I was to do it again I am fairly confident I could build another one for the same monies and get better power out of a old air cooled lump selecting better components and tweeking the design. Live and learn.

Also my bike is probably (no dyno time yet) only making 150-180 HP (completely guessing) on 8 psi
the bikes you guys (turbo guys) are building are producing a ton more power and well they look a whole lot nicer too.

But you can build a decent turbo bike for under 5K thats not junk you just have to be thrifty!!
 
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#58 ·
Nail, that's the way I see it. Barebones turbo set-up 1500-2000... Unexpected expenses are guaranteed...

but, like heroin, sex, pringles, meth, moon pies, Lays Chips... After a taste, you want more...


5k+, for the addicts....
 
#60 ·
I agree that turbo charging in general is and can be very expensive. There are some rare cases where you can get it done well and cheap, but they are few and far between. You have to start with the right bike first. Some bikes will take boost with little modification and some bikes have the aftermarket and years behind them to make it more cost effective. In my case kawasaki built a 750turbo version of my bike that looks the same but nearly everything was different. From a sub oil pan and scavenge pump, kz650 cams, hardened tranny gears, crank, rods and pistons. Different oil flow direction. lower CR, fuel injected etc etc etc. The point is that I have a lot of stock parts to pick from to put in my bike if i look hard enough, they could be cheap. i could also bolt a factory turbo into my frame.

I have torn apart a 750 turbo engine to find out what was different, studied what and why, planned my build accordingly etc. This didnt cost me anything but time but very few other engines have this going for them.

In terms of money I have $150 into my turbo build. Thats my turbo, material for the manifold along with my water jetted flanges and intake manifold parts. I traded stuff for stuff etc. I actually just gave away my Megasquirt so I need to purchase a microsquirt which is going to quadruple what i have in the setup already. On top of that i need to source injectors, tps, external waste gate, fuel pump, better oil cooler, custom lines etc etc. All that plus the MS brings me up to about $1200. If i had to pay for fabrication or what i have built so far i would easily be at $2500 by now.

My plan was always to run this turbo without touching the internals to "just see". Not saying im just slapping it together or anything. I am controlling the Fuel and timing, i planned my boost based on efficiency of the turbo and flowrates, i know my oil flow/psi, route, my turbo is mounted so its gravity drain to the pan even under hard braking.

If/when it blew up i was going to drop a 750turbo motor in it. A few years back(probably 10 now) i talked in length with a guy who turbo charged an 83 1100. everything from a custom crank and going through the entire motor. He spent 15k and made 320hp if i recall doing it the right way.

I just wanted to point out that even though i may get it done with $1500 its not ideal and still might not handle the boost(12-15psi). I am also now at an interesting cross-road because I am trying to make the bike vintage legal to race WERA which explicitly says no turbos on any vintage machine. a few people and one official said to run the turbo but my plan is to run a season with the FI and timing control to get that all sorted before I run the turbo on the track. This will take my turbo project out to 3-4years total by the time its done.

Building the stuff that bolts on the engine is always and has always been the easy part. Ignition and fuel timing KILL engines. Even if you build a forged beast, detonation can still kill it. So anyone building a turbo bike needs to do their own research and understand what is involved. If you dont have the time or drive to learn what you need to know, pay someone 5k+ to do it for you or buy a factory turbo bike and modify it. Also know that even if you spend all the money to get the right parts, a bad tune will blow up even the most built setup.
 
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