software 2 - what do you want to see? - Custom Fighters - Custom Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum

Go Back   Custom Fighters - Custom Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum > Off Topic > Open Discussion

Open Discussion Anything non-motorcycle related goes in here.

CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum > software 2 - what do you want to see?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 03-05-2018, 10:15 PM   #1
sebwiers
lɐʇuǝɯᴉɹǝdxǝ

CF Pimp
sebwiers's Avatar on CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
I support CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
Local Time: 05:46 PM
Location: United States, Minesota
Posts: 3,474
Flip Offs: 21
Flipped Off 36 Times in 19 Posts
sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!
Fighter of the Month 
Default software 2 - what do you want to see?

I'm working on some (free) software to calculate the changes to various dimensions (rake, trail, wheelbase, neck height, axle-crown length) that would result from fork length change, tree rake, neck chop / up / out, and wheel size changes. The software would then diagram either or both setups (overlayed) so you can get an vague idea of stance, etc. And yeah, its more aimed at chopper type mods... but also would work fine for fighters doing custom trees, wheel\ swaps, fork swaps, etc. Math is the same in both cases.

https://sebwiers.github.io/motorcycl...trail_001.html



I have a few questions about what people might want from such a package.

First, are the changes it calculates useful? In theory I think those are enough that you can set up a build jig, but I'm not sure just what values a jig uses. I'm also assuming that when people talk about a change to neck angle (such as +3 degrees) this is a chage to the frame itself, basically cutting the frame and inserting 3 degree wedge (which would also result in some small amount of up / out) and does not necessarily mean that the final stance has 3 degrees more rake. Is this a common understanding & use of the term?

Obviously I still have some work - it draws the bikes correctly, but they are figured out such that both effectively are treated as being in a stand with the rear axle locked in place (or equivalently, held by the engine / trans mount). This doesn't really show stance change and potentially makes calculating trail difficult, but made some of the math (much) easier and is, I assume, how modifications like up / out / neck angle change are described / measured, hence my questions above.
sebwiers is offline   Reply With Quote on our streetfighter motorcycle forum
These people High Fived sebwiers!

Advertisement
These advertisements only appear for guests, register now for free to remove these ads!
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 03-06-2018, 08:24 AM   #2
SEBSPEED
V4's FTW
SEBSPEED's Avatar on CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
I support CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
Local Time: 06:46 PM
Location: Catskill Mtns, NY
Posts: 10,322
Flip Offs: 53
Flipped Off 56 Times in 46 Posts
SEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on hereSEBSPEED spends too much time on here
Fighter of the Month Winter Buildoff Winner Fighter of the Year Fighter of the Month Fighter of the Month 
Default Re: software 2 - what do you want to see?

Looks interesting. Most people only look at half the numbers when fork swapping they skip over the spring weight and how sag will affect height. So maybe add a disclaimer or note about that to indicate it's not included in the calc

Similar notes with shorter swingarm, monoshock, poss wheelbase change

Find me on Facebook at Sebspeed Customs

Float like a Goldwing, sting like a gixxer

2015 FOTY VFR750

2016 threads
Turbo 7/11

750 Slingshot
Discussion thread

2017 thread
VFR800 Build
SEBSPEED is offline   Reply With Quote on our streetfighter motorcycle forum
Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 03-06-2018, 09:11 AM   #3
tldave
Newbie
CF Addict
tldave's Avatar on CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
Local Time: 06:46 PM
Location: WARSHINGTON DC
Posts: 1,422
Flip Offs: 5
Flipped Off 71 Times in 42 Posts
tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!tldave is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!
Default Re: software 2 - what do you want to see?

thats awesome.

I just slap some shit together and ride it. If it tries to kill me I adjust it.
tldave is online now   Reply With Quote on our streetfighter motorcycle forum
Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 03-06-2018, 11:55 AM   #4
sebwiers
lɐʇuǝɯᴉɹǝdxǝ

CF Pimp
sebwiers's Avatar on CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
I support CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
Local Time: 05:46 PM
Location: United States, Minesota
Posts: 3,474
Flip Offs: 21
Flipped Off 36 Times in 19 Posts
sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!
Fighter of the Month 
Default Re: software 2 - what do you want to see?

Yeah, it absolutely doesn't take into account that the fork length can change when loaded with weight (or brake forces, etc). That's a different project I hope to tackle later on... right now I'm still struggling to calculate the basic shit like "are the wheels touching the ground"? But with the approach I'm taking, figuring out suspension dynamics should be fairly straight forward, because I'd already be set up to deal with changes in fork length.

Which reminds me, I wanted to include output regarding brake dive...
sebwiers is offline   Reply With Quote on our streetfighter motorcycle forum
Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 03-07-2018, 02:01 AM   #5
sebwiers
lɐʇuǝɯᴉɹǝdxǝ

CF Pimp
sebwiers's Avatar on CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
I support CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
Local Time: 05:46 PM
Location: United States, Minesota
Posts: 3,474
Flip Offs: 21
Flipped Off 36 Times in 19 Posts
sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!
Fighter of the Month 
Default Re: software 2 - what do you want to see?

Well holy fuck. I figured out the trail / wheelbase issue, so now you see the neck rake line properly drawed for the custom setup, and get the figures listed. There's a couple numbers I still haven't worked out, but I know what I need to do to get them.

https://sebwiers.github.io/motorcycl...anner_002.html
sebwiers is offline   Reply With Quote on our streetfighter motorcycle forum
Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 06-11-2019, 01:24 PM   #6
rabies
time is running out......

Senior Fighterer
rabies's Avatar on CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
I support CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
Local Time: 05:46 PM
Location: IL/IA
Posts: 737
Flip Offs: 1,393
Flipped Off 39 Times in 35 Posts
rabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to beholdrabies is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: software 2 - what do you want to see?

curious to know at what angles is dangerous for stuff like forks.
at what point does it create headshake. speed wobble?
raising or lowering rear effects it?
rabies is offline   Reply With Quote on our streetfighter motorcycle forum
Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 06-11-2019, 05:10 PM   #7
sebwiers
lɐʇuǝɯᴉɹǝdxǝ

CF Pimp
sebwiers's Avatar on CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
I support CustomFighters.com Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum
Local Time: 05:46 PM
Location: United States, Minesota
Posts: 3,474
Flip Offs: 21
Flipped Off 36 Times in 19 Posts
sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!sebwiers is an amazingly helpful member with a good attitude!
Fighter of the Month 
Default Re: software 2 - what do you want to see?

Trail matters more than angles, I think. There's some builders who disagree, but here's where I got that idea from, and I've seen enough other weird bikes to believe it (both motorcycle and bicycle). There's some recent research on bicycle stability that shows all sorts of crazy setups can be stable - things like the COG of the steered system also matter.

I'm running my Hossack setup with 19 degrees rake and it seems good with just 65mm of trail. Even in theory that seems odd, but its quite stable as long as my tire pressure is good. Its possible I just actually have more trail than I think I do.

Headshake and speed wobble are IMO results of wheel disturbances and feedback loops of the same forces that cause stability. The wheel gets off center, is pulled back to center by stabilizing forces, swings past center due to momentum, and if it goes further than out that it started, the cycle will build and amplify.

Lifting the back end up decreases rake (and trail), all else staying same. You can actually test that on my chopper planner (but "up" on the planner means moving the aaxle up, so use a negative number to "raise the rear"). The link above was dead (now edited) so use https://sebwiers.github.io/motorcycl...anner_002.html
sebwiers is offline   Reply With Quote on our streetfighter motorcycle forum
This user High Fived sebwiers!
Reply

  Custom Fighters - Custom Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum > Off Topic > Open Discussion

Bookmarks

Thank you for viewing software 2 - what do you want to see? in the Open Discussion section of our streetfighter motorcycle forum. I hope you found it useful!


Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Open Discussion - software 2 - what do you want to see? on Custom Fighters Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:46 PM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 4.20
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.