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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 05-21-2019, 03:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

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Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
Very interested in what you are doing here, what information do you use to determine the type and size of the tubes to make the frame strong enough, motor mounts are sorta straight forward but what about the other design elements, how many tubes and where?

Many thanks in advance.
Great question. Not sure I have a great answer.

Much of my frame design work is based on observation, application of basic engineering principles, then iteration. I look at how major manufactures frames are built, then using knowledge of some mechanical engineering principles I am able to see areas where improvements can be made. When doing this my goal is to simply improve on what already exists. After building (and racing) a few frames over the years, I now have some ideas of what works well.

Like I said, not a great answer except to conclude that motorcycle frames in general are usually over built, so I find this seat-of-the-pants method to be acceptable. If it were a frame for a bicycle my answer would be much different.

For things like wheels (I've designed and built a few wheels in the past) where weight and construction method are much more critical I utilize FEA software (SolidWorks add-on) for basic stress analysis. This quickly shows load distribution and lights up any areas where stress concentrations might be high. From the FEA feedback the design can then be optimized till stress concentrations are acceptable.

I have some co-works who are really good at FEA so if we get slow at work I might have one of them run an analysis of this frame project. However my gut feeling is that it will be much stiffer (in the right areas) than the 35 year old stock frame that its replacing. Ride testing is also something that I'll do prior to making duplicates just to be sure I'm happy with the ride quality and perhaps make adjustments as needed at that point.

Thanks for the question
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 06-02-2019, 11:13 PM   #22
make that thing forkless
forks and valves... WTF?
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

Another quick CAD update... added cross tubes, head gussets, upper shock mount, and lower linkage mount to the frame. Played with axle eccentrics and swingarm mount inserts. Might do a bit more tweaking with those. Next on the list is engine mounts front and rear. Then lots of fine tuning of the design.

[IMG]20190602 image 1.0 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]20190602 image 1.3 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]20190602 image 1.1 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]20190602 image 1.2 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]


Also found these golden nuggets on eBay last week for $200. These wil go on the twin shock version.

[IMG]20190602_131608 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 06-03-2019, 11:40 AM   #23
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

How much does distance from countershaft to swingarm pivot matter? I know swingarm angle matters, and closer spacing means you can run a smaller sprocket without having as much rub (for a given swingarm/travel), but does it matter much for handling?

A steering damper dampens steering oscillations. If it starts to leak, it may become a steering dampener. There's no such thing as a dampner.

Bikes: naked SV1000 with all the possible bling, WR450SM street legal, 450XCF SM trackbike
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 06-03-2019, 01:33 PM   #24
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forks and valves... WTF?
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
How much does distance from countershaft to swingarm pivot matter? I know swingarm angle matters, and closer spacing means you can run a smaller sprocket without having as much rub (for a given swingarm/travel), but does it matter much for handling?

In VERY basic terms what you are asking about is amount of squat / anti-squat as influenced by the rear suspension geometry. Swingarm angle (as you mentioned) has the most influence. Next is direction of chain pull force. In other words, how close does the chain come from passing through the center of the swingarm pivot. My understanding, the actual sprocket position doesn't mater so much as where the chain line passes past the pivot center.

Here's an article that does a much better job of explaining the geometry and squat / anti-squat calculations... https://www.datamc.org/data-acquisit...quat-geometry/

If this is of interest, I'd highly suggest Tony Foale's book and software... https://motochassis.com/
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 06-12-2019, 01:24 AM   #25
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

This week made more progress on the CAD model. The main effort was to start the rear sub-frame. Also added foot bracket mounting plates, played with the cosmetic details on the eccentric chain adjusters, and eliminated a bend in the upper frame tubes that wasn't needed. Here are some screen captures, not in any particular order...

[IMG]201906011image 1.0 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906011image 1.2 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906011image 1.1 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906011image 1.4 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906011image 1.3 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906011image 1.5 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 06-16-2019, 12:36 PM   #26
make that thing forkless
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

In a few hours I'm off to China for yet another work trip (the life of a product development engineer). Anyway, thought I'd post a quick update.

This week started on the engine mounts. I start by reverse engineering the mount locations from an existing engine case. I bolt the case to a mill bed and using the DRO I pick up and record the centers of mounting locations, counter-shaft center, and crank center.

[IMG]20190615_143136 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Those numbers are translated into a sketch in CAD...

[IMG]201906016mage 1.7 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Width measurement are simple to get with calipers, then the CAD model can progress. I did find that I didn't allow enough space for air filter(s), so the top shock mount needed to be moved rearward a bit. Anyway, here are some updated images (in no particular order)...

[IMG]201906016mage 1.0 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906016mage 1.1 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906016mage 1.2 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906016mage 1.4 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906016mage 1.3 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906016mage 1.5 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]201906016mage 1.6 rz350 frame assembly 2019 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 07-08-2019, 04:23 PM   #27
make that thing forkless
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

NEWS UPDATE: Dirtbag Challenge is "GO"!

So this changes everything... my original plan (thinking DBC is usually later in the year) was to continue design prep and build the first prototype frame for Dirtbag. But then to many folk's surprise, Dirtbag was announced two weeks ago and unfortunately I'm not far enough along with the frame design.

My original plan was for next year I'd add to the frame with a crazy girder frontend... so with Dirtbag coming sooner than expected, I've changed my plans and will build the crazy girder and the swingarm (as seen in the CAD images) and mount these to a stock RZ350 frame and that will be my DBC bike for this year. Its still and enormous amount of fabrication to pull off in two months, but that's the new plan.

Then at some point later in the year, I hope to come back to the frame development.

[IMG]Screenshot-from-2018-04-24-03-22-44 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 07-13-2019, 08:19 PM   #28
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

Gonna keep the build here or do a separate DB thread?

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Originally Posted by mcantar View Post
They can ban, outlaw, and restrict whatever they please. I'll keep doing whatever the fuck I'm doing, because I don't really give a shit. The only thing that will change is that I'll be breaking their made up bullshit rules while doing it, and I'm comfortable with that.

My Build http://www.customfighters.com/forums...d.php?t=118649
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 07-15-2019, 12:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

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Originally Posted by XxGRYMMxX View Post
Gonna keep the build here or do a separate DB thread?

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I'll probably make a new DBC thread. I'll be sure to link them together.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 07-18-2019, 12:26 AM   #30
make that thing forkless
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Default Re: RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

Dirtbag Challenge 2019 thread has been started: https://www.customfighters.com/forum...74#post3129974
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