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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-08-2019, 10:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

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Originally Posted by shinyribs View Post
As long as the tube doesn't get a kink in it you'll be fine. If it flattens a touch you'll still be fine provided it isn't a super critical piece.

OEM's never slug when they tee pieces of tubing together, like on a subframe.
yeah, it isn't entirely clear to me what he's looking for the slug to do in this case: is this to attach a subframe to a main frame (or a similar T style connection), to provide a bend in a tube, to extend the length of an existing tube and add a bend, or something else?

if it's for a T style connection, a well fitted notch and good weld should exceed the strength of the tube

if it's to provide a bend, I'd prefer seeing a properly bent piece of tube (with a radius) rather than a slug with a bend in it (resulting in a sharp bend)

if it's to extend an existing tube, I guess I can see using what you mean, but I'd prefer seeing a straight splice (with a slug - likely hollow) into a new piece with a proper bend

but these are just my opinions and it's not my bike

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-08-2019, 01:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
yeah, it isn't entirely clear to me what he's looking for the slug to do in this case: is this to attach a subframe to a main frame (or a similar T style connection), to provide a bend in a tube, to extend the length of an existing tube and add a bend, or something else?

if it's for a T style connection, a well fitted notch and good weld should exceed the strength of the tube

if it's to provide a bend, I'd prefer seeing a properly bent piece of tube (with a radius) rather than a slug with a bend in it (resulting in a sharp bend)

if it's to extend an existing tube, I guess I can see using what you mean, but I'd prefer seeing a straight splice (with a slug - likely hollow) into a new piece with a proper bend

but these are just my opinions and it's not my bike
I was asking about a frame slug that would join the subframe i am yet to make to the main bandit frame. i dont think angled frame slugs actually exist from my searching...i only want a small bend in the tube after the end of the slug in the subframe.

In the photo where i have marked it in red, i intend to cut the frame tube a little more and then set a rough angle as can be seen in my shonky set up using bits of the old frame and plumbers plastic tube! so maybe the slug will be maybe 3cm into the main frame and the same into the subframe around the red mark on the photo. that's the plan.

not sure if i should go for a steeper angle or not...the tank is plain bandit with an 1198 evo ducati seat. obviously i dont want to compromise the integrity of where the subframe and main frame join which will be somewhere just below where i will be sat on it.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-08-2019, 02:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

bent frame rail be fine
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-08-2019, 02:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

just as an aside...i don't have much spare cash but want to get a reasonable mig welder...up to a couple of hundred quid. what's out there that you welders would recommend...most metal will be 1.5mm mild steel i would imagine.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-08-2019, 03:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

i,m no use to you,I tig or braze or stick
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-08-2019, 11:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

Forget MIG, learn TIG and you'll be far happier.

I also second Yan's assessment... normal, easily obtainable slugs and putting the bend in the tube will be the best route.

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-09-2019, 11:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

Excuse my ignorance but can TIG be used to weld mild steel? I thought it was the preserve of aluminium welding.

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-09-2019, 01:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

TIG can be used to weld anything that can be welded. you need DC for steel vs AC for aluminum but all the TIGs I've seen that do AC also do DC (not all DC machines do AC though)

advantages: looks nicer (if you're good), stronger, can weld anything

disadvantages: more difficult, slower

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-09-2019, 05:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

Tig are a steeper learning curve and are at at least 2-3x the initial cost of a MIG, in my experience. TIG's also have consumables that aren't particularly pricey, but if you find yourself needing a tungsten or whatnot on the weekend and no shops are open- your work is done. Once accidental drop or bump of the TIG torch can have you needing to replace a tungsten and a cone. A handful of MIG tips is a few bucks and will last for years. I can't remember the last time my MIG needed a new tip. It's been10 years or longer.

The slower speed of the TIG also results in burning up a LOT more gas vs a MIG, which can get expensive and very annoying running back and forth to exchange cylinders.

If you plan to weld lots of aluminum, don't think twice and grab a TIG. Period. You can weld aluminum with a MIG, but it ain't easy, cheap or very practical. Otherwise,just welding steel, you can build confidence and skills much quicker and cheaper on a good MIG and then step up to a TIG later.

I have both and grab my MIG 99% of the time I'm welding steel. The TIG is slow, fussy about prep, and costly to operate. I can glue shit together with the MIG while I'm fiddling getting the TIG set up and running. Even though probably 75% of my welding is done by MIG, I use almost three times as much gas per year in my TIG. At $65 per cylinder.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 10-09-2019, 06:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: angled frame slugs

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Originally Posted by shinyribs View Post
Even though probably 75% of my welding is done by MIG, I use almost three times as much gas per year in my TIG. At $65 per cylinder.
That's just because you're slow.


I have a few thoughts on this...

A good TIG welder can run around 70% the speed of a MIG welder.
But really, speed shouldn't be a huge concern for anybody here. None of us are running production shops and tracking parts-per-hour, in this space it's about quality over quantity IMO. If a weld takes 10 minutes instead of 5, but looks way better... so what?

You can usually get away with running a bit less gas flow than with MIG. The weld heat is more concentrated and the part shouldn't be getting as hot as with other welding processes, and the slower travel speed means you have direct gas coverage over the specific area for longer.

Also re. speed... you have basically zero cleanup. No spatter to scrape/grind off, nothing catching on fire, etc. so the overall time spend from prep to cleanup is pretty close.

TIG allows for things like fusion welding where you don't use filler. Not always appropriate, but sometimes a good option and will save you the cost of filler if you are worried about that.

Less consumable costs, because less consumables. TIG cups are non-consumable vs. MIG cups which do wear down from repeated spatter and clean-up. Electrodes (tungsten) don't wear unless you fuck them up by dipping them or running too hot for the size, vs. MIG electrodes which wear out from burnback and just friction. The only actual consumables you have with TIG are the filler and the gas.
Not breaking shit is pretty easy too... just make a nice littler holder to hang your torch on and itll be nice and out of the way. But yes, tungsten is a brittle metal and TIG cups are class or ceramic, so they aren't as agreeable to being used as a hammer as a MIG gun is.

The learning curve is steeper, but not insurmountable by any means. Look at all the goons that have figured it out... if we can do it so can you. The thing about it is that TIG is a proper skill, while a trained monkey can run a MIG.

TIG isn't picky about weld prep. Materials are. You can weld picky materials with TIG, which is why it gets that rep.
With mild steel specifically, quality vs. cleanliness is a product of the filler rather than the process. Most mild steel filler you'll find for TIG is ER70-S2, most wire you see for MIG is ER70-S6. The S6 has more silicon and manganese, which helps the puddle flow better and more importantly helps carry contaminants out of the weld (the silicon does this, it's the glass stuff that develops on top of your weld). Buy some S6 filler rod or just use some lengths of MIG wire and your mild steel TIG weld will be as un-picky about prep and cleaning as your MIG is.

TIG can weld:
- mild steel
- stainless steel
- cast iron & cast steel
- aluminum
- titanium
- Inconel
- Hastelloy
- magnesium
- ceramics
- etc.
It also opens up the world of TIG brazing. You can join any metal to any other metal this way, even if they aren't weldable alloys.

MIG can weld:
- mild steel
- stainless steel, but not very well and only IF you buy a full spool of stainless filler
- aluminum, IF you have a push-pull gun and the right machine
Can also kinda-ish weld cast iron and cast steel, but not very well and it WILL break eventually unless you have special filler wire.



Get a TIG.

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