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RZ350 the 2019 re-frame

16K views 62 replies 19 participants last post by  make that thing forkless 
#1 ·
Forkless is back!

Before I get into the new project, first a quick personal update. I didn't post much last year as I was super busy with a second job. I was hired by an e-moto startup to do the chassis design work for their electric motorcycle project. To date, we've completed a beautiful prototype, but unfortunately the company has now run low on funds and doesn't want to show the bike publicly yet. I was hoping I could share some pics, but those will need to wait.

In the little bit of spare time I've had, a little bit of work has been done to get one of my AK-1s back on the road, and I've gotten my RZ250R out of moth balls and running again. Got two other RZ350 that are getting partial restorations, but nothing really too crazy.

As for some older projects... FOSMC II (Snap-together Ducati) is still on hold. AK-1 (prototype 1) full restoration rebuild is also on hold. And my RZ500 project is still on hold, but I look at it screaming back at me every weekend.

Okay, on to the current new project... Over the years I've had lots of people ask me about building custom RZ350 frames. Some are serious, some less serious, but so far none have made a commitment. None the less, its a project that has always been of high interest (see sketches below). Last year, I decided that I wanted my next Dirtbag Challenge build to be based on an RZ350 so I began sketching some ideas for a chassis with a crazy girder fork design with low mounted dual shocks (sketches below). So kind of a theme here in that for the past few years I've made lots of sketches of semi-trellis framed RZs.

Fast forward to last week and out of the blue a friend sends me this picture of SXR600 race bike with a one-off trellis frame. Holy shit... thats got so many similarities with the frame I want to build! So that was the kick I needed to decide to make this a reality. The plan is to use this year's Dirtbag Challenge as a prototype build (minus the crazy front end), then maybe add the front end for next year's DBC.

More specifically, there are three major flaws with the RZ350 frames that I hope to address. First is the 80s era geometry. At 26 degrees rake and relatively short swingarm there is potential to greatly improve the overall layout. Second is the rear suspension design. Again, the 80s era design relies heavily on motocross technology of the era and results in a linkage geometry that is overly progressive. Lastly is the physical location of the suspension linkage which hangs very low. This is a problem when routing expansion chambers. A design with the shock and linkage positioned higher will result in much better clearance with the pipes.

I think its funny that there have been many attempts by many people to improve RZ frames, but most just end up adding un-needed braces which just adds weight without addressing the real issues in need of improvement.



design sketches for past few years:

[/url]20190303_182636 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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This is the SRX600 that is acting as inspiration (not my bike):

[/url]DSC_0368 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]


[/url]SRX_Racer2 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]



Stay tuned for more...
 
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#36 ·
deer suck

glad to hear that you're healing up
 
#39 ·
Thanks everyone for the well wishes. Much appreciated. As for the hardware in my elbow, I think there are 8 or 9 screws and one plate. I was never given an official count. The hardware stays in permanently... unless at some future time I notice any type of pain or irritation, then we can reevaluate if it all stays in or comes out. But for now it all stays in.

A quick project update as some of you may have ready in the project thread for my 2019 Dirtbag bike.... that bike has been invited to The One Motorcycle Show in Portland in a few weeks. Over the years the show has grown in size and quality of bikes being invited, so I'm honored that my ratty low budget Dirtbag Challenge bike has been invited!

Then in news directly related to this RZ350 re-frame project, I'm hoping to pick up some blocks of aluminum that are needed for the frame fixture later this week. Then I can begin machining and making parts! Today I've been staring at the CAD model to make sure I've got all of the dimensions fairly close. Its a lot of expensive material just for fixture blocks, so want to be sure I get it right. That's it for now.
 
#40 ·
Its been a long while since I've had anything to update, and so many delays... trips to China last year, Dirtbag Challenge that came early last year, then the deer incident, now this damn virus! I don't know if I'll ever get these frame built:shootme:

Before the world went into lock-down I was able to purchase all of the aluminum blocks to build the risers needed on my frame fixture that are specific to this frame...

[/url]2020-04-05_17-02-50 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]


And then this little care-package from Japan arrived a few weeks ago...

[/url]20200312_113323 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

This is from a TZR250 3XV. This is the swingarm that the frame kits will use. They are difficult to find in the USA, but in the internet age they are readily available from other parts of the world.

As an alternative, I may build a swingarm or two similar to what I used on the Dirtbag Challenge RZ350/Banshee. These would be set up for dual-shocks...

20190714_153808 by andbike, on Flickr

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[/url]20190901_070725 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20190901_070307 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Both swingarm options were chosen for several reasons:

- first, the linkage on the TZR swingarm sits very high and allows ample room for GP style pipes. Even fatty pipes with 120mm centers as my favorite pipe builder likes to make will fit and and sit high enough to still have plenty of ground clearance.

- second, the swingam is fairly wide and will allow for a good variety of rear wheels to fit. SV650, CBR600F2/3, and most other 4.5x17 wheels should fit.

- and lastly, the TZR swingarm is fairly long at 23 inches (axle to pivot). This is nice in that I can move the engine a few inches forward (relative to the stock bike) and gain some forward weight bias (good for small bikes).

So now if this virus thing would just end, I could get back to my shop and continue with the frames. Okay, that's my non-update for now.
 
#41 ·
After more delays, finally some metal is being cut. Before you can rock and roll, you gotta build the stage. First step is to purchase some aluminum to make fixture riser blocks...

[/url]20200527_190007 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Next step, face and drill the blocks...

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Then some assembly, and the stage is ready!:rock:

[IMG][url=https://flic.kr/p/2jgXAwz][img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50063709117_eeacf5a8f3_h.jpg[/url]20200630_130440 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Behind the scenes, drawings have been sent out for some mandrel tube bending. That's gonna be about a 4 week lead time, but there are other items to prepare in the next few weeks. Stay tuned. Shit is starting to happen! :D
 
#42 ·
Here's another quick update...

Plywood fixture boards are almost complete. Once I get into the main frame fabrication I'll show more pictures of how these get used.

[/url]20200721_155615 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

The big update is that the tube bending (out sourced) was completed yesterday (two weeks ahead of schedule):party-smiley: Now I'm almost ready to begin fabrication of the frames. Shits starting to get real!

[/url]20200721_160014 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
#43 ·
NEWS FLASH!

just announced this morning...

[/url]118472877_10157063820901330_1653390852902399759_o by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]


Okay, so it just got real with this build. As previously posted, I'm pretty much all prepped and ready to make some frames. Was just waiting for the magic word. I had a bit of machining to do on another project, so today got that out of the way. Then made first cuts on the DBC bike... machined the back of a GSXR caliper to clear the spokes on a DRZ front wheel. The wheel had originally been set up for GSXR forks and was going to go on a friend's project a few years ago... but fucking cancer had another plan for my friend.

So, in my friend's memory, I am using his DRZ sumo wheels on this project. Caliper trim came out nice and I now have about 2mm of clearance to the spokes. I also was careful to measure how much material was removed from the caliper, so material thickness is 2mm at the thinnest spot inside the caliper. I'm okay with that much thickness. I think it should be plenty safe.

[/url]20200824_152057 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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#44 ·
I dig some Sumo wheels!

And for what it's worth I concur that your calipers are probably still safe - doubt they'll see more than a couple hundred PSI on the outside and I think that thickness should be good for upwards of 800psi based on my past reading

Besides, the chances they would both fail simultaneously along with the rear brake are almost nil, right?

Sorry about your friend.
 
#45 ·
Pretty awesome to remember your friend with their parts on your bike! GOod stuff. Excited to see this all unfold! :fire:
 
#46 ·
We are now nearing the end of week 2 of the DBC build and a lot has happened already...

I spent the majority of week 1 finishing the CAD modeling of all the CNC parts. Since I'm using a vendor in China, I'm always concerned about a lead times and shipping transit times, so very important to get these parts kicked off as soon as possible. Turns out the vendor was able to get these made VERY quickly and has sent pictures of the final parts completed! (these are now in transit).

The parts include upper triple clamps with bar mounts and integrated tachometer mounts. There are two versions to fit 2003 GSXR600 (conventional style forks) and 2006 GSXR 600/750 inverted forks. Also two sets of eccentric axle adjusters, two sets of swingarm pivot holders, and two sets of front engine mount plates. The only disappointment is that I tried to specify that I wanted the raw parts "as machined" with "no sanding or blasting"... but it looks like they have been hand sanded anyway. Oh well... Chinese. At least they were cheap!

[/url]CNC parts by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]


With the CAD files sent off, I was able to spend the second week fabricating parts. I decided to start with the swingarm... which is almost identical to the swingarm I made for last year's DBC bike. Here are some photos of the swingarm (actually 2 swingarms) being built. Hopefully the pictures are self explanatory...

[/url]20200830_141758 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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[/url]20200830_180148 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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[/url]20200904_183845 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]


With the swingarms tack-welded together, I'm now ready to move on to the main frames, so stay tuned...
 
#47 ·
The past two weeks have been crazy busy and a lot has been done. More laser cut parts have arrived from sendcutsend.com. More tube notching and fitting. Main frames are coming together. And did the first test mock-up with engine cases installed. There will need to be some design adjustments as there were minor interferences in a few places, but nothing too bad. Hopefully the pictures are self-explanatory.

A major achievement was getting the full frame fixture up onto my mill so I could cut pockets for the swingarm pivot cups. It helps having a big tool for the job :fu:

Another item to point out is the special press tool I made for forming some of the large gussets. The tool forms 1-1/2" diameter bend (same size as the main frame tubes) in 16ga steel sheet. It works very well.

Enjoy the photos!

[/url]20200912_133708 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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#48 ·
I also made more progress on fitting the DRZ wheels. The front requires a spacer under the 320mm disc. I started with an aluminum plate that was laser cut to the rough shape. Frome there I machined steps on both sides to fit the disc and hub respectively. Also made spacers such that the DRZ rear wheel would fit into my swingarm. A round boss was also made which will be used as a stay for the caliper bracket.

[/url]20200912_131114 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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[/url]20200913_174113 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Alignmnet came out near perfect... I probably just got lucky:party-smiley:

[/url]20200913_174513 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20200913_174057 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20200913_152542 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]


The thick steel laser cut parts in the first photo are not really related to this project, but are side-stand lugs to repair some stock RZ350 that had the side-stand lugs removed. I did make an extra that may or may not be used on this project. Anyway, with a machined spring post, they are a 3-part assembly that will be welded together. There is a pivot plate, and stiffener plate, and spring post. The post goes through both plates to help alignment. Here is a better picture of those...

[/url]20200912_185516 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
#50 ·
Things are starting to come together quickly... A few days ago I got the frame mocked up on wheels. First doing a fit check with the single shock configuration using a TZR 250 3XV swingarm. There are no bearings installed in the swingam or steering head, so everything is very preliminary at this point just to get an idea for how its going to look.

[/url]20200927_110958 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

That was immediately followed by fabrication of mounting brackets for the dual shock configuration. I plan to build and test this first prototype in the dual shock configuration.

[/url]20200927_152428 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20200927_171428 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Of course this also required fabrication of the rear sub-frame.

[/url]20200927_171415 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Today I finished up the sub-frame by adding mounting brackets for the R6 tank and seat

[/url]20200929_143559 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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#51 ·
This week I had a little drama with my bike and local law enforcement. Here's how it went down... Tuesday I had an appoint with CHP (California Highway Patrol) to get the frame "blue tagged". This is where the CHP applies a California assigned identification number. This is part of the process of getting a title for a custom built vehicle. The officer will inspect the vehicle, review receipts for all major components and material, then affix a small blue sticker which has an assigned VIN. The sticker is a piece of aluminum foil with adhesive on the back. Sometimes they will add rivets to prevent the sticker from being peeled off, but I've always declined having holes and rivets installed in my frames and never had an issue... till now.

So the officer comes out. We have a brief conversation, including his suggesting that the sticker be riveted to which I strongly object. He mumbles a few more comments and goes inside to review my paperwork. After about 15 minutes he comes out and says that he's decided NOT to tag my bike. Wait, what? He says that he has to "do it by the book". He suggests that I add a small plate to the frame specifically to attach the sticker to. I figure this is the only compromise that we will both be able to accept, so I agree and make an appointment to return on Thursday.

So I go home and head over to my shop for the 30 minute job of making a small metal plate with two holes (for the rivets) and weld it somewhere on the frame. Simple. The CHP officer provided a photo copy of a blue tag sticker for me to use as a template. I get it cut out of 16ga steel and add a tab on each end for welding purposes. When I hold it up to the frame its larger than I though and the location I had in mind will have a diagonal brace tube added later. So I decide to mock-up the brace tube to be sure there won't be an interference. It looks really close. Since I've already got that far, I decided to go ahead and fabricate the brace tubes (left and right) and might as well weld them in now.

After and hour or so I have the two brace tubes cut and fitting pretty well, so I go ahead and tack weld them in place. Now I'm thinking I got this far, I might as well weld them in and finish the job. But wait, these tubes are in a spot that is difficult to get to the back side to get the welds all the way around the joints... so the bike which was 90% assembled for the inspection needs to be completely disassembled down to the bare frame.

By the time I get the bike apart and the welding completed, what had started as a 30 minute fab job has now taken about 5 or 6 hours. I'm not happy at this point.

Luckily I had something very good happen earlier in the day, so not all bad. On the way home from CHP I stopped to see my friend Brad Wood who is the owner of Motodemic. He sells high quality after market LED headlight kits. (If you need the absolute best quality headlight for your moto, check out http://motodemic.com. He uses state of the art LED headlights manufactured by JW Speaker. The headlights are all DOT approved and Motodemic manufactures the buckets and mounting brackets to fit many different bikes). Brad hooked me up with a 7" round LED headlight with a nice classic deep bucket and set of brackets. The headlight looks amazing and goes perfect with the gloss tachometer housing and gloss black GSXR front fender. I really love the way the front of the bike is starting to look! Note: the back of the bike is just temporary mock-up while I go through a series of vehicle inspections. In a few weeks it will change and hopefully look as good as the front of the bike.

Okay, enough typing. Here's some pics...

I love how the roller looks, so one more picture of that.

[/url]20201005_102553 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

The frame now with the diagonal braces and plate for the VIN sticker

[/url]20201007_112655 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Close up of the Motodemic headlight

[/url]20201006_124406 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20201007_172544 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

And all back together hopefully ready for CHP round 2 (Note, tail is temporary and the shitty SpecII pipes are also temporary)

[/url]20201007_173250 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20201007_173243 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
#52 ·
Today I went back to the Highway Patrol... and blue tag DONE!

Next up is prepping the bike for the "brake and lamp" inspections. This requires all lights including high/low beam on the headlight, high beam indicator on the instrument panel, turn signals, turn signal indicators, a rear running light, rear brake light, and a license plate light are all functional. A separate inspection done to ensure that both front and rear brake systems are fully functional and no fluid is leaking. Both inspections are very thorough.

[/url]20201008_110735 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
#60 ·
Both inspections are very thorough.
That's what I thought... till I had a bike inspected the first time and it failed. Everything worked perfectly but it failed because the little light that illuminates the license plate was visible from behind. Apparently the vehicle code states that the light has to illuminate onto the license plate, but NOT be visible from behind the vehicle. The second bike I took failed because the 30 year old rear brake system wouldn't get rock hard. Its this little shit that makes me crazy with these inspections.
thats what i have to do with every road bike i own every two years if i want to use them on roads. they inspect lights, brakes, brearings, frame, subframe. exhaust noise. tires.

in theory finally you can mod the subframe, or tail. but it becomes single seater. and you have to provide drawings, with load calculations, ect...
 
#56 ·
That's what I thought... till I had a bike inspected the first time and it failed. Everything worked perfectly but it failed because the little light that illuminates the license plate was visible from behind. Apparently the vehicle code states that the light has to illuminate onto the license plate, but NOT be visible from behind the vehicle. The second bike I took failed because the 30 year old rear brake system wouldn't get rock hard. Its this little shit that makes me crazy with these inspections.
 
#55 ·
I have five other bikes in my garage that have been blue-tagged and none were riveted. This guy just insisted on going by the book. I think CHP is getting as bad as the DMV... you ask three agents the same question and you'll get three completely different answers. The only difference is I can always go to a different DMV location if I have a bad experience at one. With CHP, they only let you book appointments at the field office closest to where you live and each field office only has one vehicle VIN inspector, so you get who you get... until he get promoted and new VIN officer appears with his own way of doing things. :confused:
 
#59 ·
Thanks for the questions...

I'm not sure what the overall weight will be, but a few days ago I weighed the bare frame and it was a pound less than a stock frame. Since then I've added the diagonal bracing behind the steering head and I still have a few more brackets to add for mounting the electrics. So that will put my frame a few pounds heavier than a stock frame... at least in this version. This is just a prototype frame and the long game is to make duplicates. I'm already thinking of some design changes that will reduce some weight, make the construction easier, and add more CNC aluminum parts to the design.

That said, the overall goal has been to improved geometry rather than weight reduction. The stock frames are already fairly light, they just have very outdated geometry. That's where the biggest improvements will be. Side by side with a stock bike the overall geometry and engine location is night and day different.

As for the engine mods those might come later. For now just gonna use a mild tune on the engine. I have some cylinders with mild porting, and a set of Brian Turfrey pipes. Later on I might do big Hp engine, but for now the focus is getting the first frame build and tested.
 
#61 ·
Time for another update... prototype #1 is completed and was ridden nearly 500 miles last weekend for the Dirtbag Challenge. I had some strange engine issues (possibly dirt in the carb and/or loose spark plug caps), otherwise the bike was amazing! The chassis is everything I was hoping for. We covered all types of roads from open freeway, to twisty back roads, to many miles of very rough dirt roads. On the twisty stuff the chassis was awesome. Steering was almost telepathic... just think about turning and the bike would lean over and hold a perfect line. I just can't say enough about how pleased I am with the frame and chassis.

We staged in San Francisco on Friday morning and headed north through Marin, Sonoma, Napa, Lakeport, and eventually stopped for the night at Deer Valley Campground in the Mendocino National Forrest. Day 2 we headed north west on highway 20 to Fort Bragg, then continued north on hwy 1 to Usal Beach Campground. Day 3 we returned south on hwy 101 back to the bay area.


Here are a few pictures form the trip...

I didn't take a lot of pictures of other bikes, but this one was an exception. Its built around a VW turbo diesel out of a Rabbit pickup...

[/url]20201023_101435 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20201023_101413 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

Night 1, Deer Valley Campground...

[/url]20201024_082356 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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Night 2, Usal Beach Campground...

[/url]20201025_082207 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20201024_171115 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

We had 6 miles of very rough dirt road in/out of Usal Beach. This is one of the smoother sections where we stopped...

[/url]20201025_122731 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]20201025_122659 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

The white Acura bottomed out on a rut coming into the campsite and cracked the oil pan. Dirtbags are very resourceful so we patched the crack with epoxy stick and found people to donate oil. I even donated some 2-stroke oil to the cause. She was able to drive out the next day with only minimal oil leaking and made it back to the San Francisco (with a few stops along the way to top-off the oil).

[/url]20201025_124255 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
#62 ·
With Dirtbag Challenge behind us, now on with some updates to the bike. First up was to install a set of Brian Turfrey expansion chambers. These pipes are the shit! I had some old SpecII pipes installed for the DIrtbag ride and they worked well. But the Turfrey pipes are a very noticeable upgrade with tons of mid-range power. With the SpecII pipes I could twist the gas WOT anytime without issue, but the Turfrey pipes make more torque and will spin the clutch (which I had just re-built and is in good condition). I guess some heavy duty springs are needed. I can also install FZR600 plates which have a bit more surface area and considered a good upgrade.

[/url]20201029_091030 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]

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Next steps are to eliminate the camping rack and re-build the rear sub-frame with a proper race tail. Stay tuned...
 
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#63 ·
One shot I almost forgot. I always get a photo on the morning of Dirtbag in the street on the corner of Revere and Griffith looking west down Revere Street. The bike is so nice and clean... it won't stay that way with this year's ride...lol.

[/url]20201023_085432 by andbike, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
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