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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 04:21 AM   #81
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by rock&rollfrenchfries View Post
just to clear this up... Is a 600 4 cylinder such a small bike not to be turboed?

or are we really just talking about scooters and small twins and stuff?


I would honestly prefer lowering the compression of a modern water cooled 600 than trying to go the route of a air cooled under 400cc twin. Main reason being turbocharger availability and heat. The water cooled bike will almost always be the easier route, not to mention most modern (1985+) machines that are water cooled have a pretty nice backing when it come to aftermarket parts from valves to crankshafts.


Basically, I think the general consensus, at least as I know it, and I am pretty knowledgable, is that when it comes down to it, make sure your not just throwing money at a motor in hopes of boost. Know your internal specs, like, what is your crank and rods made from, is it steel, iron, aluminum, is it forged, cast, etc. Know your enemy basically.

Another thing to look out for is how thin the cylinder sleeves are, how thin the block is around them, how much room is there for things to flex before they break? The old Virago flat trackers started to flex casings at 80-90hp but could do half a season making that much. It's a roll of the dice unless you know just how far you can push it.





What it comes down to, 100%, is knowing what your up against. I been talking with my turbo guru's lately, and it sounds as though your best off talking to someone who knows something about this sorta stuff. Talking to Poopie this evening, myself and Motohorho both said the same thing without knowing the others agenda: pitot tube size and turbo/engine flow matching matter sooooo much more than charge pipe diameter, but, it's easier to tune to a bigger charge pipe than a smaller one. Once you understand that sort of math, it all makes much more sense. Crazy, all over the board to someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, but it's these hurdles to jump in order to know what is turbocharger friendly and what isn't.



Every bike I have considered turbocharging, save for the bandit, was in the ideal of a pass or two and then a idle period to shut down running feed and return pumps for oil. All my ideals of air cooled turbocharging is based on 3-6,000 mile rebuilding/spec check phases and insanely tight tuning schedules. I don't mess around with a potential wheel chock at 100mph.


I know all too well how it feels to block the rear wheel at 120mph on a standup hill crest wheelie. Still unsure how I didn't go down...



You can barely see the B12 and the F3 waaaaaay the hell down the road on the right where the Bandit finally stopped sliding. I was standing up the whole way steering it through the massive "drifting" episode once it locked up. Wrecked a brand new Pilot Power rear as well. Less than 500 miles on it.

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Originally Posted by Zweihammer View Post
Looking at this Large Hadron Collider of a vehicle, I am starting to think the little bastard may have been on to something...
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 11:44 AM   #82
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by gsf1200R View Post
i wanna do it to a bike just so i can blow up an engine to take it apart and see how bad the battle damage was.

like they say if it aint broke dont fix it lol
Speak of the devil

I Threw a Chain and Busted the Crank Case last night on the way to a "friends" house.

luckily it happened two streets away. but it was interesting

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 07:39 PM   #83
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench Cycles View Post
He does have some balls. Im not even shooting for that much HP out of my buell blast 500cc thumper and it put out 36HP stock(almost 10HP more than the ninja). Im shooting for 70 Hp at the wheel with turbo and FI. Focusing on the engine itself right now as my head guy is picking the head up today to put a bigger exhaust valve in it and CNC port the head. Then i need a stronger rod and forged low compression piston for it. The good thing about mine is that although its a thumper, the engine is basically a sportster without a rear cylinder. I shouldnt have any problem with the transmission as ive seen sportys run well over 100hp with stock transmissions. I can also run 1/2 of everything from the sportster so there are already alot of options for connecting rods, forged pistons, valves + springs, etc...

I will say im not doing mine on a budget though. I am also building a custom frame from the ground up, custom wheels, Harley springer front end(4" under stock), and Microsquirt FI.

I did save some money today by trading a pinball machine I had for the headwork...
I can't remember who it was but someone on here built an NA blast with over 70hp(74 i think) hopefully someone will link to the thread.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 08:01 PM   #84
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by shift1313 View Post
I can't remember who it was but someone on here built an NA blast with over 70hp(74 i think) hopefully someone will link to the thread.
I call bullshit. You would have to show me dyno printouts and a video of the bike being dynoed and even then i wouldnt believe it...

NRHS, who specializes in high performance buell parts for the XB's, tubers, and blasts has a full race blast with a huge big bore kit(had to bore the cases to fit it), high compression piston, cams, headwork, igntion, Mikuni Carb, etc.. and theres only dynoed out to 50HP. I was talking to them today about a custom piston and they have never seen a blast with anywhere close to 70HP...

If i was to make 75Hp with a blast engine, being as its one half of a sportster, that would be the equivelant of making 150HP+ with a sportster except for the fact that its even harder to make that HP with a long stroke single and IMPOSSIBLE on a naturally aspirated one...

Dont forget dynos lie... Its as simple as changing a couple numbers on your corrections and you can magically gain X ammount of HP.... Also any dyno runs he did dont mean shit if he didnt do a before and after dyno on the SAME dynamometer... Two different dynos will read two different HP.

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 08:11 PM   #85
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench Cycles View Post
I call bullshit. You would have to show me dyno printouts and a video of the bike being dynoed and even then i wouldnt believe it....
It wasn't 500cc anymore, dude was legit. IIRC his next move was a custom jug to give around 1000cc?
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 08:20 PM   #86
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench Cycles View Post
I call bullshit. You would have to show me dyno printouts and a video of the bike being dynoed and even then i wouldnt believe it...

NRHS, who specializes in high performance buell parts for the XB's, tubers, and blasts has a full race blast with a huge big bore kit(had to bore the cases to fit it), high compression piston, cams, headwork, igntion, Mikuni Carb, etc.. and theres only dynoed out to 50HP. I was talking to them today about a custom piston and they have never seen a blast with anywhere close to 70HP...

If i was to make 75Hp with a blast engine, being as its one half of a sportster, that would be the equivelant of making 150HP+ with a sportster except for the fact that its even harder to make that HP with a long stroke single and IMPOSSIBLE on a naturally aspirated one...

Dont forget dynos lie... Its as simple as changing a couple numbers on your corrections and you can magically gain X ammount of HP.... Also any dyno runs he did dont mean shit if he didnt do a before and after dyno on the SAME dynamometer... Two different dynos will read two different HP.

If dynos lie then why do you want to see one

I dont remember specifics but i will do some digging. Remember i didnt build it, just vaguely remember it
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 08:29 PM   #87
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

Found it.

http://www.customfighters.com/forums...ad.php?t=24223
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 09:05 PM   #88
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by shift1313 View Post
If dynos lie then why do you want to see one

I dont remember specifics but i will do some digging. Remember i didnt build it, just vaguely remember it
I could care less about numbers on paper. I'm going for seat of the pants!

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 09:22 PM   #89
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by shift1313 View Post
I still don't believe it. I smell bullshit. That dyno sheet doesn't look right to me. For one it list mph and not rpm, for two torque and horsepower always cross at 5252 and that don't look right on the graph...

Link to graph
http://www.customfighters.com/forums...0&d=1251253299

Here are NRHS dyno sheets. Blast is at the bottom of the page
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/dynoroom.shtml

Oh and his profile says he's from Lakewood, Colorado, and the run was done at Hot Metal Harley davidson which is located in Pittsburgh... Almost 1500 miles away. Guess he took a Sunday drive to the dyno..? I just see alot that doesn't match up is all.

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 09-21-2011, 09:33 PM   #90
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Default Re: Quit trying to turbocharge little bikes on a budget

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Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench Cycles View Post
I still don't believe it. I smell bullshit. That dyno sheet doesn't look right to me. For one it list mph and not rpm, for two torque and horsepower always cross at 5252 and that don't look right on the graph...

Link to graph
http://www.customfighters.com/forums...0&d=1251253299

Here are NRHS dyno sheets. Blast is at the bottom of the page
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/dynoroom.shtml
The bike doesnt rev out that high. Like i said it wasnt mine but i didnt have a problem believing it. His time slips from the track were in the 10s range which is on par with the power he said for that bike. If i remember right his job was to build motors and this was something he wanted to do.
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