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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 12:39 PM   #1
thaOrleanyte
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Default That one bike that does it all except exist

First off, it's good to be back. I missed this forum. And to think a bunch of us left for FB,.... well fuck FB. I digress......my point is I've moved to CO for work and have the money to get back on a bike. I live close to a gigantic motorsports park with 1000's of acres of open desert trails that backs into a large reservoir. Also, I'm 45 mins from several mountains, bout 1.5 hours to top of Pikes Peak. Primetime fookn riding territory.

Now I'm hunting for bike to ADV/DS. My first reaction was DRZ 400S. Then I rode it. It's better than the CRF250L, but thats not saying much. No disrespect for either bike, I just had expectations that were a bit inflated by opinion. I hate to call it already, but right now, the DRZ is as close as it comes to the perfect paper all arounder.....with $2k thrown at it. What would a WR250R ride like with the same parts budget? Probably rips.

There is a mythical motorcycle that can tackle anything rolling beneath it's tires.

A bike that has enough power to cruise you down interstates at 80+ mph smoothly. Be gentle yet torquey enough to not have to murder your clutch in rocky single track, uphill battles against Earth and gravity. A twin engine is smoother than a thumper when at higher RPMs, and has friendly torque and power pulses in the dirt, imo. P-twin/V-twin FTW.

Weight under 300 lbs, or close to it, yet beefy enough of a frame to support 200lbs of geared rider plus ~50+lbs of cargo. Make the frame steel and spokes too, plz. WR250R is ally

Have service intervals that are above 1500 miles. Sure, that KTM is lightweight and powerful, but it's high compression and low oil capacity call for service intervals that are unrealistic for a bike that could conquer a continent.

Easy to maintain and hard to break, reliable, bulletproof....all the terms that give us a warm and fuzzy when worried about the chances of getting stuck in the mountains. Water cooled bikes have a bit more ass than their air cooled brethren, but if a hose gets punctured, or a rad breaks, or a pump goes out...these could be catastrophic in the field. Bonus points to air cooled for less shit to break. DR650/XR650L pigs rejoice.

Anyways, the ADV/DS scene has been growing and we are seeing manufacturers develop some of the most technically advanced (i.e. EXPENSIVE) bikes for middle aged white dudes to put in the dirt. The manufacturers are still pretty tone deaf when it comes to what the market really needs. Although, I think Honda knocked it out of the park with the Africa Twin, but my pockets are not that deep....well I'm not reaching that far into my pocket for something I will definitely crash. Maybe in a few years when they hit the used market. Look at her, just wanna rub myself all over it.



The 450L on the other hand is just a plated race bike with a few tweaks. They kinda fucked that one up I think. Trying to hard to compete with KTM. Sure the on paper, that's what the market wanted, but 600 mi oil changes and 1800 mile valve adjustments....and the same price as a KTM.....come on, Honda! Can't tune out a few horse, run her cooler or whatever, and maybe increase the intervals a bit, geez.

I would love to get a VStrom, but the suspension travel and weight are a concern. I don't plan on doing super technical dirt riding, but I do plan on a lot of exploring, and a heavy bike is not going to work for me.

That's the problem. Dual sporting is fundamentally a compromise. Not gonna do anything great, but it can do anything, kinda. There isn't that bike that is perfect yet, because whatever reason Suzuki won't put a 6th gear in the DRZ. Versys or Vstrom with more suspension travel and put on a diet?
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 02:26 PM   #2
thaOrleanyte
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

Now for me, I need something is relatively easy to ride. The riding I plan to do is more ADV than enduro. I'm not a particularly skilled rider so I need something to grow with. Bear with me, as this thread is kind of a journal of sorts while I process building close to the ideal as pragmatically possible, likely a foolish endeavor but one I'm taking for shits. Call it a philosophical journey...

From an economical standpoint, buying a used DRZ or KLR is an affordable option. Throw the XR/DR 650's in there too. Now for the compromise within a compromise, the KLR/XR/DR are heavier but better on the highway, DRZ is lighter/better in the dirt but buzzy at highway speeds. 350lbs is about max I would want to pick up. 650's are heavy, no way around that one.

Did I mention it should have Estart and kickstart? Oh yeah, EFI is preferable for drastic changes in altitude. Now this is available on some Yammys, older WR's if I'm not mistaken. The DRZ can be equipped with a kickstart for ~$250 and a few hours work. +1 for the DRZ again.



Now for the rub, I'm not investing the time to build the ideal machine. A 650 twin motor in a steel frame bike with 40 hp, 10"+ suspension travel, 350 lbs wet, 6 speed, EFI, wide trans blah blah. So at this point, I've been milling over what's practical.

DRZ vs WR250R...

How much ya wanna spend?

They make gearing for the DRZ trans with better ratios, and a 290 kit for the WR that put's it in DRZ power/weight territory . The dyno charts from the WR250R's Athena 290 kit are very favorable.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 03:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

Sounds like a Beta RR-S.

You can get them from 350cc up to 500cc.

It's what I plan on getting if I get a four stroke dual sport.

https://www.betausa.com/
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 03:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

So, let's assume the base is a DRZ400. Let's see what it would cost to make the "ideal" version of an all purpose machine. A little bit more power, suspension work, kickstart, and other mods to make it able to go from LA to NY in a straight line, comfortably and confidently. If this isn't primo bench racing at it's finest, I don't know what is, guys.

-DRZ400: Can be had from $2500-5000 used. $7500 new.

Parts list
-Exhaust: ~$250
-Jets: ~$50 for a nice compliment of sizes for different alts
Kickstarter kit- $250
-Big bore: 434 kit~ $530 reportedly helps the vibes at highway speeds and is reliable (not sure on service interval changes, possible overheating issues). Not exactly needed.
-Springs: ~$260 Front and rear springs, $169 for valves = $429
-Lithium battery: $80 not really needed either, but hey....
-Comfy seat: $220
-Rack $150 or so
-Upgraded charging system and lighting: $300

Now let's assume that must haves are: jets, springs, seat and rack = $849
Power: Exhaust and big bore= $780
Electrical: Battery,lighting and charging sytstem=$380
Kickstart=$250
ACT wide ratio trans =$620

That's an additional $2259.

Low end used price: $2500 + $2259= $4759, not bad. With tranny: $5739
New=$7500+2259= $9759. With tranny: $10,379 Petty steep, considering the other choices in that price range. *KTM honks in the distance*
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 03:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry02ACR View Post
Sounds like a Beta RR-S.

You can get them from 350cc up to 500cc.

It's what I plan on getting if I get a four stroke dual sport.

https://www.betausa.com/
There's a 350RR in Colorado Springs I'm meaning to test ride. All the reports on the Beta's are that they are rock solid. Some problems with a plastic gear that's replaceable. The service interval on what is certainly a race bike is what concerns me. Now, being honest I will probably will not be taking it on cross continental rides, but I don't want to bleed money in oil changes and top end rebuilds just to putt-putt around the mountains. However, lighter usage may increase the service interval since they scheduled the intervals for racing applications. It would be something worth testing, not sure I can do it on my dime.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 06:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

Don't let the service intervals worry you to much. All those "race" bikes that list those super short service intervals are basing that on race use. For cruising the roads and plonking down trails you can stretch those service intervals WAY out. There are lots of guys with plated KTM 500 EXC's that are doing like 1500-2000 mile oil changes and the bikes are proving rock solid. It's actually the one engine KTM built to be not revvy, so it's reliable.

I looked in to DRZ400's not long ago. My take away was the DRZ is 40lbs heavier ( and all up top) than my XR400 with less torque down low and budget, short travel suspension. You do gain estart and radiators, if that's a plus or minus to you. For the same weight as the DRZ you can get a XR650R, which has really nice suspension, an engine that absolutely rips and is still Honda reliable. But no estart and lack of DOT approval pretty much killed that hrse for the masses. They could've added a 6th gear and estart and still kept the weight around 325lbs wet. If they had, there would still not be any competition for that beast some decade and a half later...

I feel you on the Africa Twin, but it's riddled with electronics, the forks have severe premature wear issues and they are 500+lbs. That said, I really want that engine in a upright naked bike on 17's.

Not poo poo'ing on your ideas, just tossing out info. One of my riding buddies had a DRZ400 and never liked it. He sold it and plated a WR250F. He said it's slower on the road ( only likes to cruise about 50mph), but it's a joy offroad, wheelie's and log hops much easier and is equally as comfy on the road, top speed aside. Another buddy has a WR250R. Those engines are literally a single cylinder taken from an R1. Deadly reliable, but absolutely NO balls down low. When we pull away from a stop light he sounds like he is going full WOT race mode and I just walk away while accelerating normally on my XR400. I'm blown away by the complete lack of torque those bikes have. Coupled with a 300lb+ wet weight and that are pretty sluggish away from pavement.

I dig kickstart if it means I can get away without having a battery. But Jap bikes are stupid reliable and I have no issues trusting a Japanese estart. Euro estarts? Yeah, they are dodgy most the time. Especially older KTM's. But if you go with the DRZ platform I wouldn't worry about adding a kicker. I think it would just be additional weight that may be fun, but you'll never "need" it.

I love what you're building ( and glad to see you back!), so don't take me wrong. I think there's massive potential in a DRZ. I'm watching another build ( on ADVRider) where a is building a WR450 based bike ( started with a WR450 frame, but moved tubes heavily) that he's mounted a 75hp FZ07 engine in. He's shooting for 350lbs.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 09:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

We sell Beta bikes. The 390 is a fantastic ride. More dirt than street though. Beta almost directly copied ktm in the engine dept. Sorry, you cant go 30k miles between valve adjustments like a klr.

Drz is a patently boring bike, low power, budget suspension, heavy and not very fun to work on. That said, its just about the only bike that does what it does.

Never ridden the wr.

There is a klxr 650 here on Craigslist for 1500$.

Moscow/Pullman Craigslist.

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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-14-2019, 10:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

I guess the klxr is gone, it was up for almost 3 months. Kinda cool, rare bike.

How about an old xr like shiny has? The more metal/less horsepower thing make for increased reliability.

Btw, a ktm 500 exc has three hour oil change intervals. . . Seems like all the dirt bikes i work on have seriously nasty oil, and a high percentage have wasted cam chains...coincidence?

"Practice till the hot brass burns the cheeks of your ass" F. Bob Chow
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-15-2019, 11:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

Welcome back!

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yell, "Built not bought mother fucker!" in there face and then spit on their bike and walk off.
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Old Streetfighter Motorcycle Forum Post 04-15-2019, 03:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: That one bike that does it all except exist

if you were willing to put a bunch of work in... several guys on ADV have shoehorned Honda 500 twins into CRF250Ls and apparently it isn't *too* hard of a fab project.

Of course, you'd still want to do the suspension etc.

A steering damper dampens steering oscillations. If it starts to leak, it may become a steering dampener. There's no such thing as a dampner.

Bikes: naked SV1000 with all the possible bling, WR450SM street legal, 450XCF SM trackbike
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