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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So ive been off the forum for quite awhile. had my 95 yzf, got hit by a toyota with no lights on at night. bought a 96 bandit 1200 (so far my favorite for its engine and ride) which got raped by a Ford Explorer cutting through an intersection (gotta love some So Cal drivers). took a break for a couple years and now im back at it.
Bought this 93 katana 600 a month ago ish for a nice little commuter and just to toy with. WIfe said we had to share so i couldnt chop anything until i got her a bike. luckily a buddy i work with had to go to the east coast for about 6 months and wanted to sell his zx6 for cheap. tada, anyways so i got to cutting plastics, subframes and such.

Now judge all you want but i have an apartment with no garage (just my patio after i push the bikes through the living room), close neighbors that hate loud noises (so no fun tools like grinders and i cant weld so thats on hold) so with my limits i just decided to have fun with it, thats what its all about right?


So here she is on day 1, didnt take many pictures but it was pretty much all stock from 93



so then i started just taking it apart, sounds like usual starting point





as you can see my massive amounts of space to work and everything....



so just basicly bought an offroad HID headlight, dont ride at night so just wanted to be seen during the day,



tested it out that afternoon in the parking lot and was seeing spots for awhile afterwards (yea not the brightest thing to do but i wanted to see how bright it was)



so since it was blinding i aimed it pretty far down, can still be seen during the day but not a blinding light in the afternoon times.

so then i took off the tail plastics just to see what was underneath and such



kept her like this for awhile, no time to play and no plans set. so far this was my only way to work since mom and baby had the car so it was only a what i can do on the weekend project



kept my idiot lights and speedo so far.



more pics and updates to follow, finally finished it this weekend but trying to get this all in on one night with making supper and a screaming baby.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
so bought some tires since the rear literally had harley davidson on it and was pretty hard/square and the front was just as horrible. got some battle ax tires, loved them on my bandit so thought why not give them another shot

so got some reflective rim tape, (custom taylor 33) which came with a lil bike logo and some stars so wife thought they would make good helmet decoration



pics are with flash on to show the ?reflectiveness?



so after a horrible idea to ride to phoenix and back ( left from oceanside and was going for sister in laws bridal shower and her husband was having a ride that day so thought why not) anyways after we got back i decided to just start chopping and make myself fix it



so thought maybe use the rear seat since it fit nicely with the brake light but really hated that gap so i would have to mess with it (used the search function a lot to find useful DIY)



or use original front seat, i liked the lip on the back and its comfy, it fit the tank well but not the rear end and it seemed big to me.



also on the ride back from phoenix i saw oil was seeping from the bike somewhere so i bought the gaskets for this side and turns out a previous owner kinda forgot the gasket here



now where to cut the tail. i needed to keep some for the rear sets and enough to keep it stable for my seat since i cant weld up anything at this moment.



but with work, and chores around the house and everything else she had to sit for awhile in between free time



during this tho i looked at quite a few builds for inspiration. dont remember the names on here but i remember it involved ugly betty or uglier betty and a topic called bob kats since i really wanted to just chop the tail and have the least amount back there.

finally got around to taking the jig saw (loud, cheap, on hand, got the job done so yep) and took some spray paint, not really much care for paint jobs at the moment either, just kinda messing around with ideas but i think it turned out decent. painted the battery box since it got rusted and corrosion from an exploded battery and then the tank.



going for a light matte, flat, semi gloss green. first thought was kinda like kawasaki green but they didnt have that in spray can form so oh well..



so with the change in color i had to buy some green rim tapes, luckily wifes bike is red so she gets the helmet and the red tape. but here it is with out flash, just in the shade



flash on, same time of day



got the tank clear coated with semi gloss clear coat, liking the look even if its spray can, finished the front wheels and now another night down



so thanks to lowes for my "custom seat subframe thing" used some thicker steel brackets and grade 8 5/16 bolts to keep me from falling down



look from the back, baby laysie and mom came out to help



laysie helping tighten down the tank



picked up a seat from an SV possibly, thanks Rev Moto for that one and also the tail light from some honda thing



a quick mock up before final bolts and such



in the end we bent the metal a bit more, mounted the tail light upside down to get a better angle



next is a trip to warners muffler for some baffles and packing because dear lord this bike is loud with it cut. surprisingly seems to run better, think it was rich before, but want some baffle to keep the exhaust valves from burning up and what not. anyways wanted pods, researched, now keeping stock box, i liked the exaust the ugliest betty had i believe it was venturemorerite or something like that, sorry if i butchered your name. but i gotta leave it at this. hopefully more in 2 weeks with the next pay day.
 

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Isn't as dumb as he seems
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In before everyone tells you that you're going to die because of your subframe.

I like the paint color, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Since wife went back to work she takes her bike and I drop off the baby so it's just gets to sit in the parking lot. Waiting on a guy from work to get back so he can weld up something better, it feels pretty sturdy for what it is. And thanks, I like the look of matte/semi gloss.
So it's a temp subframe, more of a mock up than functionality, But I like the position of seat and brake light and it seems stable
need to get a new chain, this one is pretty beat up
need to figure out exhaust system, way way too loud especially for California laws
 

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Commander Cool
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It's mostly that the bending moment for the subframe is in front of where most of your weight will be. You would be best off putting some gussets under the (now) bottom rails for strength. I do like how you've made the new upper frame though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ok so been slow at work for a bit and took some close up pics of the temp sub frame I have on the bike now.

heres original



heres what ive been trying to figure out



so here is the break down

GREEN- steel pieces that are hidden by the seat, front part supports the gas tank and is bolted to the flat steel that goes under seat and connects to the back brackets where my tail light is

RED- pretty much keeping it but just adding a support to the lower rail, I would have my buddy weld up the steel brackets and such that I currently am using and add some other pieces to stiffen it up ( mainly the 2 90degree ones on the back side)

BLUE- get rid of whole thing all the way to the frame, weld new pipe from there back and bend or put a cross bar where the current 90degree bends are at that way it keeps the seat angle and gives me a place to mount the brake light ect.

YELLOW- would be an addition to the blue if you guys think it would be needed. I have never chopped up a tail like this and ive never had to pretty much re design the strength needed to keep me from falling on my back tire so I don't know whats overkill and what would work.

heres a different angle, im also concerned if the two lower rails will bend outward/deform so if I end up using them should I cap them, add a cross bar on the end, add a support from them to the middle of the 90degree bends, something else? of course if I go with something else this may not even be an issue



also for the exhaust im really leaning to a DIY baffle set up like venturesomerite or another thought I had was to keep most of the stock pipe but cut slots in it and weld in half a fender washer every so often like this site has http://www.gadgetjq.com/vhbagger_shhh.htm <about half way down the page
and then slip a slightly larger pipe over it to hide the weld marks and have a 45degree turn out to the side or down (still deciding)

has anyone else messed with this type of baffling? ive seen some posts use the baffle tube wrapped in packing material but some say it hasn't quieted their bike down enough...
 
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On a structural note triangulation is what you really need for a simple strong subframe, there are other fancy ways of doing it but a simple triangle both sides with supports across to hold you tank seat etc is by far the easiest & stongest basic structure

So if that made sense to you...... the blue line is fine the red could come up to meet it at the rear in a point & the yellow wont be needed, the green hidden supports can be any how you want as long as they are strong enough for the job .... I cap my tubes either with cross supports or plastic bungs or welded steel discs depending on the look I am after, I also drill a small hole on the underside of each tube to allow welding gasses or any moisture to escape ...... these can be capped later if you want although I rarely bother

Exhausts a removable perforated baffle tube & packing is the way to go you can always remove it & weld restricting washers in at a later date if needed
 

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0.o i didn't do it
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You could do what I did an mod some of the sub frame you cut off and repurpose for the frame support ( welding required)
 

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Hack in a barn
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Here's what I would do, I'm not claiming to be Mr. Fabricator here but with the right material I think this would be strong.

I'd keep the blue line like you have it but run a steeper angle on the red to meet it and weld that end like "4cups" was talking about. Then the yellow is some gussets, in the front it's like the rail is supported from the factory and then the yellow in the rear ties the two together. Obviously you'd need some cross bracing too...

 
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yeah :) that's pretty much what I was getting at F'dup! I would use tube on the rear brace between the main supports & a much smaller brace plate at the front probably with a hole in it for looks

If you really wanted to get a little fancy & have the tools you could bend the blue to go up towards the tank & then flatter under the seat, but as in the above pic is fine
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
yea that makes sense, thanks for all the help guys. I don't know why but I guess I just completely brain dumped a simple triangle frame for support.

I think ill take some measurements this weekend and see what I can come up with and find a welder around here to help me out. I can get access to welding equipment and probably everything I need but I only did stick and I think oxyacetaline welding in HS and I don't remember much of it. my main problem I guess is to be careful with the airbox (it gets support from the rail by the tank) but with the paint "F'dup" put on there it looks like it should be fine.

wish I could find more people like this in SoCal, I have gotten so many 'why the hell would you do that' comments so far.

I was thinking of using steel square tubing like what the lower engine mount is like (can kinda see it in the lower corner of the pic) for the blue and then just round tube for the red part.
 

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Oiler Boilereerer...er(s)
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wish I could find more people like this in SoCal, I have gotten so many 'why the hell would you do that' comments so far.
Lol welcome to street fighting!


Maybe you could invest in yourself, by that I mean find a decent little used fluxcore or mig, maybe even a HF welder to start and just practice a bunch before you touch the bike. Stick is harder than fluxcore anyways, so if you did stick, you'll pick up flux no problem.
 
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to the people who say why did you do that the only answer can be ...... you had to ask so you wouldn't understand :)

I still stick weld stuff occasionally as that's where I started but mig most of my frames now, I cant get into flux core & to be honest think its a shit job most of the time, others will disagree though, moving swiftly on .............

A few lengths of decent steel tube should not cost you too much & that will bring you to the joys of tube notching :) Imho it would look best all in 1" tube
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I cant weld where im at now, apartments already pissed at my "rebellion" of not working on my bike in parking lot and pushing it thru my living room to the back patio. but I can get on base and use the auto hobby shop with all the welding, I think its mainly MIG and TIG? not 100% sure tho

"to the people who say why did you do that the only answer can be ...... you had to ask so you wouldn't understand"
haha that's pretty much how I feel about it, I just enjoy having something unique that I can say I came up with and made my own.

only reason I was thinking of using the square was to match the front but I also like the smoothness of round tube. hoping to get it done or at least almost set up next weekend (gotta wait for that next check) then it will be a baffle/exhaust work and learn to weld/watch someone else weld it up.
 

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Oiler Boilereerer...er(s)
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only reason I was thinking of using the square was to match the front but I also like the smoothness of round tube. hoping to get it done or at least almost set up next weekend (gotta wait for that next check) then it will be a baffle/exhaust work and learn to weld/watch someone else weld it up.
I'm actually debating with the swuare vs round for my subby right now. Leaning towards square.
 

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There's a guy in my battalion that ever since he found out my bike is a streetfighter every time he sees me he says "get into any good street fights lately?" :doh: or people say "is that a stunt bike?!" No.... Its a work in progress...

Either way people don't understand sometimes why we do what we do, but we do, and thats what matters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So looking at the front it's rectangle, maybe inch by half an inch (mistyped it the first time), didn't have tape measure at the moment, but I think that sold me on using square for one support and round for the lower. Plus did some Google searchs and most looked to have done the same. So anxious for this Fridays payday, some plans need to be finished.
haha hicklife, that sounds like something my shop would say. Battalion - what branch? I'm former usmc, got out last aug.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So I have decided to try and mimic the front engine mount for the upper rail and then probably just use the same for the lower, still messing with it but my question now is: do you guys have a recommended thickness for the tubing? ive searched and found a few good answers but someone said round vs square would have different qualities and since im using rectangle im curious if that helps or hurts the stiffness and I would need to find a thicker wall metal. also stainless vs bare steel vs ??? remember this thing is a dedicated light weight track monster....I kid, I want strength over weight so if cast iron and lead pipe are needed let me know.
 
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Round tube is stronger for the same wall thickness than square, either way from memory the stock subframe is 1.6mm wall but with lost of braces you don't want or wont need so anywhere around 2.5mm wall is fine for the job ........ that's working in 25mm (1") dia tube if you went smaller I would say 3mm wall
 
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