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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
none of the threads I remember reading nor any of the instructions I see on any website or the instructions on the dynojet stage 3 kit I have now mention this. Nobody seems to mention this part. And you'll be scratching your head wondering why the bike runs like shit.

Those 2 vent hoses that hang off the carbs just a foot or 2 back to nowhere (dreadlocks). You have to leave those off.

confirmed by dale walker. I been talking with the guy. He's helping me get my dynojet kit tuned in. Stand up feller that he is.

You wouldnt think those hoses should make a difference. theyre just as open hanging off a foot or too out back as they would be with just the bare nipples right. What difference would it make.

It does. I guarantee theres lots of people out there who do not have this figured out yet and are having problems. gotta pull those 2 stupid hoses.

You need to yank those 2 dreadlocks or the bike will run like shit with open filters. just leave the crossvent tees bare and pointing upward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
anybody remember that endless thread years ago about me trying to get my previous bandit running with k&ns. And everybody was like "you need to check your valves" "you need to change the plugs" "you need to go get them synched".

and I just knew it was something more stupid than that...

those 2 goddamn hoses. I never had a clue.
 
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I will be interested to see how you get on with that as my info gained from a well respected dyno man is the exact opposite :confused: he actually fits the 2 vents before tuning if they are missing !

Having said that he wont use DJ kits either so maybe that's the difference ?

Not trying to cause an argument mate just saying :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Oh ive already done it.

I got mine back from a local dyno shop "who did kindof a halfass job imo". about a month ago. It ran ok but has a slight miss on cyl #2 at idle. Only at idle.

So my final diagnosis is the floats need seal rebuild kits... But first I tried different pilots. It had leaner 32.5 pilots in. I tried the stock 37.5 back in there.

Putting it back together, I noticed the dyno shop left off those 2 hoses. So I went to my parts bike (yes my parts bike... imagine how I am kicking myself right now) and grabbed the 2 off of it. stuck them on there. threw it all back together.

went down the road. ity started breaking up at mid throttle. It would idle and it would go if I FLOOR it. but mid throttle would barely stay running... I said to myself "what did I put back together wrong". A pilot change just a size or 2 should not throw off the whole midrange needle tune THAT bad. What did I put back together wrong?

Messaged dale. I was like hey you know them 2 hoses. He was like yea it will run like shit. gotta leave them off. nipples pointing upward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was using a DJ kit but of course this is dale's recommendation for his k&n kit as well.

this is just the 1st gen b12 were talking about. I have no idea about the 2nd gen or any other bike
 
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Fair enough if it works for you that's great :)

My experience is the exact opposite, I got my last B12 running close to right using only mikuni jets & patience, I ran it like that for 8 months with the only real problem just a slight hiccup on changeover from pilots to mains, then I won some dyno time in a competition .....
.....dave taylor took one look & the first thing out of his mouth was 'its never going to run right without the vents on those carbs!' swiftly followed by 'I suppose you got a fuckin dynoshit kit in there as well'

After a chat & run as I took it in he was surprised at how close I got it & he fitted some pipes then spent about 5 minutes twiddling before a second run ..... the bike was super smooth all through the rev range after that :drinks:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
yea I let this shop do "what they know how". and they used a dynojet kit.

once it wears out my emulsion tubes i'll change it all for holeshot stuff. But who am I kidding. nobody wants to buy this used dynojet kit. its in there might as well run it for now. I dont feel like immediately spending another 3-400 dollars on the holeshot kit. thats another thing at this point i might as well just run these filters for a while and then get a WHOLE other kit filters and all.
 

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I refrain from saying anything negative about Dale Walker and his Holeshot Performance products as many B12 owners swear by it, but I've never been able to get his stuff to work as well as everyone says it does, even with his infinite wisdom as guidance I find better results with a set of Factory Pro Ti needles and E-tubes, K&L or Suzuki brand rebuild kits, and basic Mikuni jets right off the shelf.


R&RFF, if you have an interest in a stage 3 holeshot kit with needles, only installed and run on the dyno once and then binned, I do have it sitting here on my desk. Technically my brother doesn't want, nor need it, and we've got our formula down pretty good for tuning our B12's, so if it was going to someone that would spend the time to dial it in I'm sure Toc and I could part with it for a bit cheaper than you could find one gently used. ;)



As 4cups said, Mikuni jets tend to work well. In the long run of things my brother dialed his bike in to a point that with our special flavor of exhaust building and modification, properly setup carbs, a set of K&N dual ovals, a Holeshot advancer, and alot of time tweaking the little things, Toc put down the highest wheel horse power of any internally untouched engine Bandit the local shop has ever seen. If I remember right, it was somewhere scraping against the barrier of 130whp by the end of the tuning process. Toc was even allowed to run his own bike on the dyno as well, so he can say it truly is all his effort to brandish a record breaking setup built all on his own. :)

(VOLUME WARNING) This thing is downright demonic in person! :rock:

WSBK style after fires, it even does it on the street! No surging, no stuttering, no issues at all, it runs better than it did stock too! Something to be said about taking the time to learn this stuff and apply it. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
thats what I have. stage 3 dyno jet kit. but actually I do think I have all the stuff laying around to try it your way. Tell me. the factory pro needles. would they happen to be black?

this stage 1 jet kit that came with the bike has no label. but has mikuni jets (around 125 127.5 you know stage 1...). what looks like just stock springs. and black needles with 5 notches. and a spare set of emulsion tubes which are probably the previous ones out of the bike...

if its FPro stuff the next question is are the stage 1 needles the same...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So I have a yet to be identified stage 1 jet kit with no label. mikuni jets it must be factory pro. but are the stage 1 needles the same as stage 2?

whats in the bike now is a "dyno tuned" (yes in exactly the way you described ratfighter. I payed out the ass for the old in and out treatment. But hey I learned about them hoses...) dyno jet stage 3 kit. and they of course gave me the rest of the kit. it's only main jets springs and needles and a few shims for fine shimming. meant to run stock pilots.

I do happen to have 4 mikuni 155s. I could try those black needles or the stock needles with radio shack washers and whatnot.

now that I know about those 2 hoses... the options are limitless.
 

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Not sure aout fp needles but dales needles are black anodised.Had them in my mk1 when it was n/aspirated got it running good.Picked up a mk2 with holeshot kit and pipe etc.Could not get it to run right so went with the RS 38s I had from a previous build..now the mk 2 runs good....
 
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Dynojet info from memory
DJ kits are supplied with 3 sets of jets, springs & a set of needles, stage one for use with the stock airbox & less restrictive exhaust uses the smaller jets..... stage 3 for use with pods & full system uses one of the larger sets of jets the needles & the springs depending on what the bike needs, neither will be right straight out of the box if ever

DJ jets are not measured the same way as mikuni, one is by hole size & the other by actual flow, DJ needles with mikuni jets wont work, DJ kits on some bikes suggest drilling the lift holes in the slides, depending on the bike & state of tune this can cause more problems than it solves

It is impossible for any off the shelf kit to work 100% on your bike as there are too many variables eg exhaust, filters, state of tune wear & tear etc etc all have an effect on what you need, having said that some kits for use with the stock airbox will get you close but dyno time is the way to go if you want it right

So if you stick a kit in then dyno it you wasted money on the kit as any good dyno man can get the same result with a handful of jets
 

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UnicycleMode
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Factory Pro Ti needles are sliver in color if I remember right, been seeing alot of jetting stuff lately swapping parts around with my brother, only ones I know of that are black are Dales coated needles. Ti emulsion tubes from FP are some awesome but expensive parts. Been working up to dropping the coin on them for my turbo bike carbs.

FP needles work well with Mikuni jets too, I try to stay away from DynoJet products as much as possible as 4cups mentioned they are rather specific to the kit/parts they are associated with and don't work well if at all with other brands. Holeshot stuff works well with Mikuni jets though, hence why the black needles are the "fix" for most guys around here.



It sounds as though you have a bit of a Holeshot kit, and a Dynojet kit, and someone used Mikuni bits in the mix as well. Good chance if you stay away from the DJ stuff you could dial in a really good setup in the long run. I can see what specs my brother landed on. (I rode his Bandit yesterday while out testing the GS850G with a friend, and it pulls like a stock bike after enough fussing about with the dyno runs and carb adjustments.)
 
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