[ex5 fighter]

wow 20 years and your still working on it, thats determination! I loose interest after a couple months haha. I think about switching to some sort of engineering degree alot but I have a very hard time motivating myself to do real school work. My parents really wanted me to go to college so Im taking welding, kinda the easy way out.

how do you steer that rz btw? whats it like to ride it? do you get the same ammount of feedback as if they were mounted on the forks? what made you decide to build that?

 

[ex5 fighter]

^^^^^Jtarkany's cousin. :doh:

I had no idea what you meant. Then I saw that tripple clamp setup and the chop saw and drill press and :rotfl: Not because I thought it was idiotic, but because you were spot on! he may have me beat on that one though.

 

[make that thing forkless]

wow 20 years and your still working on it, thats determination! I loose interest after a couple months haha. I think about switching to some sort of engineering degree alot but I have a very hard time motivating myself to do real school work. My parents really wanted me to go to college so Im taking welding, kinda the easy way out.

how do you steer that rz btw? whats it like to ride it? do you get the same ammount of feedback as if they were mounted on the forks? what made you decide to build that?

Have you looked into Industrial Design or Transportation Design? I switched from Mechanical Engineering to Trans Design and it was the best choice I've ever made in my life (career wise). In some ways it was more difficult than engineering, but it was perfect for me. My very first job out of college was working for a design firm (GKDI) doing motorcycle concepts for Yamaha. Yep, I just sat around all day drawing motorcycles... and getting paid. What could be better than that?

Ya, that forkless RZ started as a project that I hoped to finish in one year... seven years later I had it running and on a race track. There were probably months at a time, maybe years, where I didn't work on it. But like I said, I had to figure out everything as I went. I knew very little about materials, fabrication methods, suspension design, etc... but I wanted to build a very unique bike so I just did what I could and figured it out as I went.

As for why forkless, I've always been a big fan of alternative front suspension design. Early on I was fascinated by the Elf Hondas, James Parker's RADD bikes, Nico Bakker's bikes, Yamaha Morpho, Suzuki NUDA, and anything similar. Then I started reading Tony Foale's book and about the experiments he was doing with front suspension geometry (his zero rake BMW). One paper I saw how a forkless designs had many advantages. The designer in me also saw how this could be great chassis to design a very unique looking motorcycle. When I got out of college and had some free time (no social life) and a bit of cash in my pocket again, I decided to build my bike. The only thing that changed along the way is that it became more of a chassis design exercise and less about the bodywork.

The handling is as good as I expected (maybe a little better). The feedback at the bar is excellent due to a redundant linkage systems that allows for any free-play to be adjusted out. Because I didn't have access to FEA software 20 years ago, most of the parts are over engineered (heavy), so un-sprung mass is more than I'd like. But other than that it works fantastic. The biggest difference compared to a conventional bike is no nose dive if you grab the front brakes hard. It will dip down in front because of weight transfer, but not like a fork that will collapse with hard braking. In corners it is very stable at all speeds, yet it can be flicked around easily. Kinda the best of both worlds. It is super fun to ride.

Turn 2 at Thunder Hill Raceway 1997:

At present I'm re-doing the lights (it was made street legal a few years ago) and a few minor details then it will be painted again. In the future I plan to make new wheels that are lighter and more modern looking, and maybe go back to a stock engine as its a handful on the street with the current race prepped engine.

with new headlights (smoke-out at the 2011 2-stroke Extravaganza):

J.

 

[leo_black_label]

nice. this is way beyond what most of us will probably accomplish, but it really is a boost to my motivation or rather my feeling that anything is possible if i really put effort and focus to it! right now im in the process of tearing down my first attempts at aluminum subframe and swingarm made partly of repurposed stock bits. and coming home from my workshop just now i kindof felt like i would never get it right.but looking at the progress and fixing problems along the way here reminds me that nobody gets it right the first time. thanks for the good photos and stories all!

 

[ex5 fighter]

ohhh I see the left side is open. I didnt notice that before. I would love to see that thing in action!

No i havent really looked into either, just mechanical engineering. Everyone told me to take that. I will look into both. I just have to figure out what I really want to do. when Im motivated to do something I do it. But if not forget it lol. I suppose you could call it lazyness... Like a couple other guys said, your work is inspirational. I need to get off my ass figure out what i wanna do and get to it!

 

[Racing Geek]

The further I go into the mechanical engineering degree I get the more I find myself getting easily sidetracked and my grades are beginning to show this. I enjoy coming up with the concepts and figuring out how things work rather then figuring out EXACTLY how they work. I'm not opposed to doing math but 2 page long calculations get old fast when I could model the part in a program, press a couple buttons, click a few things, and poof... there's the answer that would take me 20 minutes to find by hand.

If you can post some close up pics of your forkless bike it would be greatly appreciated. I'm particularly interested in your steering. Am I right in thinking it's like a large king pin setup?

 

[ex5 fighter]

nice. this is way beyond what most of us will probably accomplish, but it really is a boost to my motivation or rather my feeling that anything is possible if i really put effort and focus to it! right now im in the process of tearing down my first attempts at aluminum subframe and swingarm made partly of repurposed stock bits. and coming home from my workshop just now i kindof felt like i would never get it right.but looking at the progress and fixing problems along the way here reminds me that nobody gets it right the first time. thanks for the good photos and stories all!

Success would be meaningless without failure. I know I get pretty discouraged sometimes. I think its best to just take a break and relax and come back with a clear head. Getting on here and looking at other peoples projects and talking always helps too :thumbsup:

 

[Racing Geek]

When I get discouraged with the build or need to clear my head I spend the rest of the day cleaning and organizing everything in the shop. This way when I do get time to get out there to work I'm greeted with a clean work area which is way more calming then working in a mess and tripping over parts/tools. Watching a bunch of builds on here is also motivation because of the constant bombarding of progress. Makes me want to keep up with everyone elses progress.

 

[make that thing forkless]

The further I go into the mechanical engineering degree I get the more I find myself getting easily sidetracked and my grades are beginning to show this. I enjoy coming up with the concepts and figuring out how things work rather then figuring out EXACTLY how they work. I'm not opposed to doing math but 2 page long calculations get old fast when I could model the part in a program, press a couple buttons, click a few things, and poof... there's the answer that would take me 20 minutes to find by hand.

If you can post some close up pics of your forkless bike it would be greatly appreciated. I'm particularly interested in your steering. Am I right in thinking it's like a large king pin setup?

Racing Geek I can totally relate to your calculus scenario. When I was in engineering school all I wanted to do was ride dirtbikes and drink beer. My grades got so bad they eventually kicked me out :truestory:

So I have a suggestion for something to do over your winter break... take a little road trip over to CCS (Center for Creative Studies) in Detroit, but make sure they aren't closed for winter break at the same time. When you get there check out the Transportation Design and Product Design departments. Take a tour if they offer one, then also wander around on your own and try to get into some of the senior level design studios and talk with some of the students and see up close what they are working on.

EX5, I'd suggest the same, but I don't know your location so can't recommend a specific school for you to visit. I'll bet if you were studying something creative you'd get very motivated. Your frame project seams to show that your capable of getting and staying motivated if your heart is in it.

After I got kicked out of engineering school I was so un-motivated that a good friend spent three years trying to get me to check out a design school. Once I finally did and started taking classes I was interested in I was so pumped to design and build stuff that 25 years later I haven't slowed down.

Good suggestion on posting some pics of the forkless bike. I'll try to start a new thread in a day or two as I'm already feeling self conscious about hijacking this thread

 

[ex5 fighter]

Racing Geek I can totally relate to your calculus scenario. When I was in engineering school all I wanted to do was ride dirtbikes and drink beer. My grades got so bad they eventually kicked me out :truestory:

So I have a suggestion for something to do over your winter break... take a little road trip over to CCS (Center for Creative Studies) in Detroit, but make sure they aren't closed for winter break at the same time. When you get there check out the Transportation Design and Product Design departments. Take a tour if they offer one, then also wander around on your own and try to get into some of the senior level design studios and talk with some of the students and see up close what they are working on.

EX5, I'd suggest the same, but I don't know your location so can't recommend a specific school for you to visit. I'll bet if you were studying something creative you'd get very motivated. Your frame project seams to show that your capable of getting and staying motivated if your heart is in it.

After I got kicked out of engineering school I was so un-motivated that a good friend spent three years trying to get me to check out a design school. Once I finally did and started taking classes I was interested in I was so pumped to design and build stuff that 25 years later I haven't slowed down.

Good suggestion on posting some pics of the forkless bike. I'll try to start a new thread in a day or two as I'm already feeling self conscious about hijacking this thread

Its all good, Im kinda glad that you did.

 

[ex5 fighter]

yea I know what you mean, im not very organized so half way through a project my work area ends up a disaster and it just makes things worse. then when i get stumped on something I take a break, clean up and it really helps.

 

[ex5 fighter]

Anyways, I started putting stuff back together and snapped a couple pics,

 

[Bob138]

The most importanat part of college is the piece of paper they hand you at the end. If you can get that paper then don't worry about what it says. I may be in the minority but I currently hold an associates degree in Commercial Design and Illustration and my current job is IT R&D for a large Tee-Shirt printing company. I get to rough out solutions then hand them over to code monkeys to finish. It's pretty much my dream job. Make things better, that's all that's asked of me. How did I make the jump from Art to IT? Google. HTML, javascript, vbscript, php ect. You can google all of it and learn online. I know for a fact that most of the code grinders do the same thing after 4 years for their computer science degrees. Hell the starndard helpdesk list is 1. Restart 2. google it.

Anyway, I know engineering is a bit more complex but it still follows lots of stable formulas, so those formulas are probably accessible online. That and I'm willing to bet that besides McGyver, most engineers can take the time to google it if in doubt.

Most employers want someone with a degree who interviews well. So personally I feel it's more important to be able to explain youreself than to be able to hand over a piece of paper that says your qualified.

Bob

 

[pineapple]

What's next ex5?

 

[Racing Geek]

It should be a tube swingarm that compliments the frame.

 

[matthasthorns]

That is a HUGE amount of work you did in a pretty short period of time.

I think the top subframe mount should be higher up right under the gas tank and extend horizontal instead of up at an angle. The way it is now leaves a odd looking hole there.

 

[make that thing forkless]

The most importanat part of college is the piece of paper they hand you at the end....
Most employers want someone with a degree who interviews well. So personally I feel it's more important to be able to explain youreself than to be able to hand over a piece of paper that says your qualified.

Bob

Bob, that is a very good point 95% of the time. However I believe EX5 (and Racing Geek) would both do well in Industrial Design or possibly Transportation Design. In those fields its all about the portfolio. There are a lot of ID jobs available right now, but its very competitive getting in with good firms. Being able to interview well is important, but for what these guys want (and can) do, the quality of their portfolios will be crucial. Even when I interview engineering candidates I also ask for their portfolios. Just another thing to think about.

Julian

 

[ex5 fighter]

That is a HUGE amount of work you did in a pretty short period of time.

I think the top subframe mount should be higher up right under the gas tank and extend horizontal instead of up at an angle. The way it is now leaves a odd looking hole there.

Its actually taking longer than I had anticipated. I really wanted to get it done before the end of the riding season but then I decided to slow down and take my time.

I thought about extending the sides of the tank down to fill that gap. The problem with raising the subframe is that with padding on the seat i will probably be standing on my toes. Another idea i had was to just add a piece of metal to the front of the seat to cover it up. Im waiting for my battery to arrive to finish the seat and figure out what im going to do.

 

[ex5 fighter]

It should be a tube swingarm that compliments the frame.

yup, thats next! I have to make a jig using the existing swingarm, and figure out what size tubing Im going to run. im thinking 1 1/4". I still have a couple feet of 1.5" and it would be nice to use it up, plus its strength to weight ratio will be higher. But i think it might look a bit goofy with such big tubing. I need to find someone who can bend 1 1/4" for me and figure out the radius of ther die and then design the swingarm. For now though I would like to at test ride the bike with the stock swinger and make sure i dont have any major handling issues.

 

[Racing Geek]

Use the 1.5" tube for the main U shape of it and then all the bracing in either 1" or 1.25".