get Spyder on the case.
Fzr600 ignition problems I'm out of ideas
I've had this bike for almost an entire year. A summer project turned into a two summer project. And this summer I'm so close but it's fighting every bit of the way. I have no spark. I have fuel I have compression I have air obviously. There's 12v going to my coils. Kill switch is fine because when its off the starter won't even crank. Kick stand switch is connected but just hanging there so is not engaged. Spark plugs are brand new and I tried more than one. I'm on my second set of coils (used but both give same results). Boots and wires look fine. Battery is fully charged. The bike hasn't run since I got it but I can't explain why there's no spark. And yes I grounded my spark plug threads when I tests it. 12v to coils on all four wires but the orange and grey wires make the test light flicker really fast (which should happen unless I'm wrong which is entirely possible). The bike is a 1990 fzr600. Any ideas? Please help guys. I haven't tested the pickup coils or CDI yet because idk how but would I be getting 12v to the coils if those were bad? Thanks in advance
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is the regulator/rectifier good?
i had issues with my 91 fzr600 and changing it solved the problem. my bike was sitting for several years before i acquired it. i used a bunch of starting fluid and a car battery to finally get the engine started. i must have cranked the engine over for 20 minutes before it even started sputtering to life. from then on i never had issue with the engine.
i got most of my help from reading posts on the FZR Archives forum.
www.fzrarchives.com
i had issues with my 91 fzr600 and changing it solved the problem. my bike was sitting for several years before i acquired it. i used a bunch of starting fluid and a car battery to finally get the engine started. i must have cranked the engine over for 20 minutes before it even started sputtering to life. from then on i never had issue with the engine.
i got most of my help from reading posts on the FZR Archives forum.
www.fzrarchives.com
Im pretty sure its good. The guy said he had replaced it since the stock ones are notorious for quitting. How would I test it? And if it was bad wouldnt I be having all kinds of other problems as well? According to the Wiring Diagram the Reg/Rect connects only to the alternator and to the battery through the main fuse. My main fuse isnt blown and there wouldnt be anything coming from the alternator until the bike is running.is the regulator/rectifier good?
i had issues with my 91 fzr600 and changing it solved the problem. my bike was sitting for several years before i acquired it. i used a bunch of starting fluid and a car battery to finally get the engine started. i must have cranked the engine over for 20 minutes before it even started sputtering to life. from then on i never had issue with the engine.
i got most of my help from reading posts on the FZR Archives forum.
www.fzrarchives.com
try the fzr page if you cant get the info here. there is a wealth of information both here and there. good luck, keep us posted.
If the regulator ever failed and the voltage spiked it easily could have taken out the TCI module. If you've never heard it run then the PO easily could have fried the rectifier and blown the main fuse and then just replaced both. I would try to pick up a known good TCI unit and swap them. If that doesn't solve the problem pull all the FZR stuff out and swap in a YZF motor :thumbsup:
Any ideas on how to check my reg/rect? If i replace the cdi i dont wanna blow it again. Also back to my other question, if my cdi/tci is bad would I be getting 12v to the coils like i am?If the regulator ever failed and the voltage spiked it easily could have taken out the TCI module. If you've never heard it run then the PO easily could have fried the rectifier and blown the main fuse and then just replaced both. I would try to pick up a known good TCI unit and swap them. If that doesn't solve the problem pull all the FZR stuff out and swap in a YZF motor :thumbsup:
The usual test is comparing battery voltage with the bike off and running... If it is the four-wire type, just swap it for The later five wire from either 95+ FZR 600s, any YZF600, or 99-02 R6. Other years might work too but I know those work.Any ideas on how to check my reg/rect? If i replace the cdi i dont wanna blow it again. Also back to my other question, if my cdi/tci is bad would I be getting 12v to the coils like i am?
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Yamaha switched from analog to digital TCI's (not a CDI) beginning right around 1990. The Vmax got digital ignition for the 1990 year but some others didn't for another couple years.
In short the analog boxes were fragile and haven't aged well. As said one voltage spike can toast them, and among Vmax owners the analog ones are dropping like flies now.
TCI (transistor controlled ignition) is kind of the opposite of CDI (capacitor discharge ignition). CDI works by discharging a medium voltage (around 200v or so) pulse to the coil, which amplifies it to 20k or whatever. So the coil is only energized to spark.
TCI supplies the coils with 12v all the time (it should be steady with the engine cranking), with an open ground. The ignition box uses transistors (tiny switches) to close the circuit when it's time to fire that coil.
On my TCI Yamaha it would energize the coils when the key was first turned on. If you didn't crank it within ~5 seconds, it would discharge them again, until it detected a pulse from the trigger coil. If a test light doesn't show a steady, constant voltage, I would be suspect of the ignition box.
If you can confirm it's a digital box, check with a fzr owner's forum or something, they're very reliable and failures are almost unheard of.
As for R/R's....they're all interchangeable. They all take 3 phase AC in and convert it to 14.4v DC. Newer ones "finned" are MOSFET style and much better/reliable. Older ones, the black potted boxes, are shunt style and eventually go bad and are a lot less efficient. 99% of MC r/r's are made by the same company and the easy way to tell is look for a part # on it, if it starts with "FH" it's a mosfet, if it's a "SH" it's a shunt.
In short the analog boxes were fragile and haven't aged well. As said one voltage spike can toast them, and among Vmax owners the analog ones are dropping like flies now.
TCI (transistor controlled ignition) is kind of the opposite of CDI (capacitor discharge ignition). CDI works by discharging a medium voltage (around 200v or so) pulse to the coil, which amplifies it to 20k or whatever. So the coil is only energized to spark.
TCI supplies the coils with 12v all the time (it should be steady with the engine cranking), with an open ground. The ignition box uses transistors (tiny switches) to close the circuit when it's time to fire that coil.
On my TCI Yamaha it would energize the coils when the key was first turned on. If you didn't crank it within ~5 seconds, it would discharge them again, until it detected a pulse from the trigger coil. If a test light doesn't show a steady, constant voltage, I would be suspect of the ignition box.
If you can confirm it's a digital box, check with a fzr owner's forum or something, they're very reliable and failures are almost unheard of.
As for R/R's....they're all interchangeable. They all take 3 phase AC in and convert it to 14.4v DC. Newer ones "finned" are MOSFET style and much better/reliable. Older ones, the black potted boxes, are shunt style and eventually go bad and are a lot less efficient. 99% of MC r/r's are made by the same company and the easy way to tell is look for a part # on it, if it starts with "FH" it's a mosfet, if it's a "SH" it's a shunt.
Thanks that was very informative. I called yamaha today and I was under the assumption that my bike was a 1990 fzr600 UK version because thats what the guy who owned it before me told me. Yamaha checked the serial number and vin and said its a US non Cali bike. But all of my electronics and wiring matches the UK version which is the same as the 1991 Us version. Yamaha also said its an FZR600R if that means anything. I have a clymer manual with wiring diagrams and it seems like what you just said changed that year. The igniter for the Us and UK versions are different and so is the reg/rect. It shows the reg/rect as having 7 wires and no main fuse. Where should I even begin? Do I seriously need to replace all my components? Can i just use the 1990 UK harness with the US motor? I mean everything electrical that I have hooked up which is all except lights and turn signals work fine and nothing gets hot and it cranks fine. My battery reads just above 12v and reads around 10 under load. The tci is currently getting 12v to all four wires on the coils. But I replaced the coils with a working set. Voltage reg/rect shouldn't matter cause bike isn't running. I only hav one ground to the frame and one to the engine case. I was plannin on redoin he harness to eliminate faulty wires as a problem but I don't want to spend the money on new plugs and the time if I need to replace all my components. Could my relay be bad? Cause I don't think my fuel pump is working either even though i hot wires it and it works.Yamaha switched from analog to digital TCI's (not a CDI) beginning right around 1990. The Vmax got digital ignition for the 1990 year but some others didn't for another couple years.
In short the analog boxes were fragile and haven't aged well. As said one voltage spike can toast them, and among Vmax owners the analog ones are dropping like flies now.
TCI (transistor controlled ignition) is kind of the opposite of CDI (capacitor discharge ignition). CDI works by discharging a medium voltage (around 200v or so) pulse to the coil, which amplifies it to 20k or whatever. So the coil is only energized to spark.
TCI supplies the coils with 12v all the time (it should be steady with the engine cranking), with an open ground. The ignition box uses transistors (tiny switches) to close the circuit when it's time to fire that coil.
On my TCI Yamaha it would energize the coils when the key was first turned on. If you didn't crank it within ~5 seconds, it would discharge them again, until it detected a pulse from the trigger coil. If a test light doesn't show a steady, constant voltage, I would be suspect of the ignition box.
If you can confirm it's a digital box, check with a fzr owner's forum or something, they're very reliable and failures are almost unheard of.
As for R/R's....they're all interchangeable. They all take 3 phase AC in and convert it to 14.4v DC. Newer ones "finned" are MOSFET style and much better/reliable. Older ones, the black potted boxes, are shunt style and eventually go bad and are a lot less efficient. 99% of MC r/r's are made by the same company and the easy way to tell is look for a part # on it, if it starts with "FH" it's a mosfet, if it's a "SH" it's a shunt.
Why would you track down UK parts when Yamaha told you it's a US bike? You have the correct number of grounds, though your battery voltage seems low. Did you make sure that the ignition pickup on the left side of the engine is plugged in? If it is, then I would be willing to bet that it's a bad TCI. The ignition system on these bikes doesn't have a lot of parts, so there isn't much to troubleshoot.Thanks that was very informative. I called yamaha today and I was under the assumption that my bike was a 1990 fzr600 UK version because thats what the guy who owned it before me told me. Yamaha checked the serial number and vin and said its a US non Cali bike. But all of my electronics and wiring matches the UK version which is the same as the 1991 Us version. Yamaha also said its an FZR600R if that means anything. I have a clymer manual with wiring diagrams and it seems like what you just said changed that year. The igniter for the Us and UK versions are different and so is the reg/rect. It shows the reg/rect as having 7 wires and no main fuse. Where should I even begin? Do I seriously need to replace all my components? Can i just use the 1990 UK harness with the US motor? I mean everything electrical that I have hooked up which is all except lights and turn signals work fine and nothing gets hot and it cranks fine. My battery reads just above 12v and reads around 10 under load. The tci is currently getting 12v to all four wires on the coils. But I replaced the coils with a working set. Voltage reg/rect shouldn't matter cause bike isn't running. I only hav one ground to the frame and one to the engine case. I was plannin on redoin he harness to eliminate faulty wires as a problem but I don't want to spend the money on new plugs and the time if I need to replace all my components. Could my relay be bad? Cause I don't think my fuel pump is working either even though i hot wires it and it works.
Also, if you're too cheap to buy new spark plugs for $16 you're going to have a hell of a time getting this bike running.
To your first part, yes the pickup is plugged in. The guy replaced the alternator and pickup brand new before I bought it I have the receipt.Why would you track down UK parts when Yamaha told you it's a US bike? You have the correct number of grounds, though your battery voltage seems low. Did you make sure that the ignition pickup on the left side of the engine is plugged in? If it is, then I would be willing to bet that it's a bad TCI. The ignition system on these bikes doesn't have a lot of parts, so there isn't much to troubleshoot.
Also, if you're too cheap to buy new spark plugs for $16 you're going to have a hell of a time getting this bike running.
I did not buy any UK parts. I assumed it was a UK bike because all the components matched the UK diagram when I bought it and I thought they were all stock. I have not purchased anything for this bike specific to UK bikes. I just found out today hat it's a US bike.
And the spark plugs are brand new all for them. Same brand and type as stock. NGK CR9E I believe. And I tried more than one on different coils to rule out duds. I'm not the type to post help on a forum with common problems I can find on forums. I've gotten this far using forums and hardly ever posted anything. I felt that this was a pretty specific problem and believe me I still search every night for hours looking for solutions. I appreciate your input though blensen. Maybe I can find a bike in my area to rule the tci out with. Any volunteers? Rochester ny area
I did some more research. According to Motosport.com for the 1990 fzr600R the components I have are spot on. And they seem like they are stock they're pretty beat up and old. I'm just confused about the diagram in the clymer book. Should I go off of the 1990 UK? I wonder if the "R" has anything to do with it. I also have found that all the TCIs for the Models of that year start with 3HE and the main relay starts with 3EN. That website also shows the reg/rect. As being 4 pin. Minus the clymer manual it all makes sense. But nothing else supports that diagram. I can't even find the components with the number of pins it shows for the RR and the TCI.
Wow just realized the confusion haha. When you said I'm too cheap to buy plugs I was confused where that came from. But now I see. When I said spend money on plugs I meant the OEM style connectors for the new harness not spark plugs. Sorry poor wording on my partWhy would you track down UK parts when Yamaha told you it's a US bike? You have the correct number of grounds, though your battery voltage seems low. Did you make sure that the ignition pickup on the left side of the engine is plugged in? If it is, then I would be willing to bet that it's a bad TCI. The ignition system on these bikes doesn't have a lot of parts, so there isn't much to troubleshoot.
Also, if you're too cheap to buy new spark plugs for $16 you're going to have a hell of a time getting this bike running.
Wouldn't be the first time there was miscommunication on the internet. Hell I don't blame you for not wanting to buy new harness plugs. As far as the US/UK thing, the two are identical as far as the mechanical bits go. The UK has a slightly different headlight if I remember correctly, but to get it running they all use the same parts.Wow just realized the confusion haha. When you said I'm too cheap to buy plugs I was confused where that came from. But now I see. When I said spend money on plugs I meant the OEM style connectors for the new harness not spark plugs. Sorry poor wording on my part
Yamaha did some parts sharing in the FZR line. The 3EN is the foreign market FZR400 for that year. It works the same, the 400s just used the part first. And all FZR600s are FZR600R's. The R is just usually dropped in conversation. Just go off of the US spec stuff and you'll be fine.
Here's a link to the wiring diagram I always used on my 94. Came from a Haynes manual I believe.
FZR600/R Wiring Diagram
Yeah I just wasn't sure because the 1990 UK is the same as the 1991 US. And the 1990 US is supposed to be what I have but the clymer diagram shows it being way different. And the OEM connectors are so damn expensive. I want my harness to be legit though. There's something about redoing wiring and doing it right that's just refreshing haWouldn't be the first time there was miscommunication on the internet. Hell I don't blame you for not wanting to buy new harness plugs. As far as the US/UK thing, the two are identical as far as the mechanical bits go. The UK has a slightly different headlight if I remember correctly, but to get it running they all use the same parts.
Yamaha did some parts sharing in the FZR line. The 3EN is the foreign market FZR400 for that year. It works the same, the 400s just used the part first. And all FZR600s are FZR600R's. The R is just usually dropped in conversation. Just go off of the US spec stuff and you'll be fine.
Here's a link to the wiring diagram I always used on my 94. Came from a Haynes manual I believe.
FZR600/R Wiring Diagram
Thanks for the diagram Blensen. The ignitor module has more pins than wires going into it and Ive seen that before. How do I know which wires go onto which pins? the TCI is a 6 + 8 pin but the diagram only shows 9 wires coming out of it.
So I pulled the TCI out of its case and it looks mint. Nothin is blown or black or looks out of place. If the TCI isn't bad wtf is it. It's gotta be the wiring or the battery that's all that's left
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