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Newbie
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21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I'm new to the forum and unfortunately my first post is to get my bike working :(

i was gonna put an img, but its giant so you can see them at the link below if you want.


Heres the situation. I bought a 92 gs500 for 200 bucks. They said it had a broken rod, so i took it home. charged the battery, put some oil in it, and got it started. Heard a noise coming from the engine, figured thats what the broken rod sound was and decided to tear the engine down, and if all else fails buy a new engine.

To see everything i did you can check out the blog i made to document everything.
http://gs500resurrection.wordpress.com/

Anyway, so i got the bike back together, and now when i try to start it, it cranks over but never catches.

Every once in a while it will kind of pop like it got a little fire going but never fully starts. I tried push starting it, and when i do that it fires up, and if I pull the clutch in it dies automatically, and if i don't it just kind of bogs down and dies.

Heres what i've looked at so far.

Spark is good, and the plugs are brand new.

Compression is there, i did the thumb test.

the Crankshaft is turning i can see it when i take the pulse generator cap off

I took the carbs apart and cleaned them, it looks like all the orings and gaskets are there.

I checked my fuel lines to make sure they are not clogged

I checked the fuel filter, its got no debris in it and no holes.

I added a gallon of new gas

I checked the vaccum suction on the carb by putting a piece of plastic up to it and cranking and the carb sucked it to it, then blew it away with each rotation.

I have drained the float chambers, and after trying to start check for gas in them to make sure gas is getting to the chambers and it is.

i've tried every combination of no choke/choke/half choke & on/res/pri both with standing start and push start.

the only odd thing i noticed was i sprayed WD40 around the carb boots and when i crank, it bubbles up a little. not sure if thats enough to ruin the air delivery to the engine or not. or if its just bubbling because the movement of the engine.


Sorry for the long post, but im at a total loss here, and have no idea what to do now.

Thanks!
 

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Buell Fighter
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2,114 Posts
Hmm, you've covered quite a bit of the normal no starting problems, so I salute you with that. Sounds like you're capable and not a real noob. Which is good!

When you said you did the compression test with your thumb did you mean that you just put your thumb over the spark plug hole? If so, that may not be a totally accurate reading, haha. I'd recommend getting a tester from AutoZone or Advanced and renting it to check for compression. That may be your problem.

After cranking, have you checked the condition of the plugs? Are they clear? Have oil on them? Gas?

This is a long shot but is your bank angle sensor (if you have one) faulty? How about the kickstand, neutral and clutch switches? They should all stop spark but you never know... EDIT: actually, if the bike is starting when you push start it I don't think it would be the bank angle sensor.

If you get the chance, try taking a video of it trying to start and post it up...someone on here may hear a familiar noise...other than you cussing the bike out :LolLolLolLol:

I can only assume that you cleaned the jets in the carbs individually and blew air/carb cleaner through all the fuel passages? Then did a bench sync as well? As for the WD40 test, I'd say you have a leak at the intake boot...however that shouldn't stop the bike from starting IMO. But you never know. When you are trying to start the bike, do you have the airbox on? Most of the time those airboxes are cruuuucial in delivering the correct amount of air.

Let us know what's up...I'm sure others will chime in.
 

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ShamanFighter
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22,340 Posts
COULD BE A BAD STARTER MOTOR
 

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Newbie
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21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the replies! I am still a noob when it comes to mechanical stuff, i just will dig in and research as much as possible before giving up...

So, as far as checking the plugs after cranking, i haven't done that. I will check that today when i get home.

When i cleaned the carbs, i sprayed the b-12 chemtool carb cleaner and compressed air in everything that had an opening :)

I am having a few problems with my clutch and kickstand. the stand is kinda jerry rigged because the spring got lost i guess so its got a bungie connected to the gearshifter lever. and the gears sometime stick, like its really hard to engage them, but i didnt figure this would prevent me from starting it in neutral. I always have the clutch in when i try to start the bike also, just as a side note.

I'm not sure what a bank angle sensor is, i'll have to google that one.

I dont know how to do a bench sync test either, if anyone has any good links as to how to do it and an explanation of what it is for i can probably do that as well.

I no longer have an airbox hooked up, its just a straight K&N hooked to the carb.

I will get a video up of me trying to start the bike standing and the push start when i get home as well.

thanks again for the help!
 

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ShamanFighter
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22,340 Posts
yeh this is true... but the boubles from the boot could cause a problem..did u pull piolet screws out and clean them too???
 

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Buell Fighter
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2,114 Posts
I no longer have an airbox hooked up, its just a straight K&N hooked to the carb.


thanks again for the help!
Did you rejet the carbs when you deleted the original airbox? If not, you're not getting enough fuel. Try starting it by spraying starter fluid down the carbs. If it kicks on and runs for a few seconds you are having fueling issues. You can't just slap a K&N filter on one of these bikes and not put bigger jets in it. Frankly, I'd get rid of the K&N for now, put the original airbox on and see what happens. Adding a K&N filter to a carbed bike can fuck up allllll sorts of things with fueling.
 

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GURU
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8,827 Posts
Im going to guess your cam timing is off. From the right side of the engine, the ends of the cam shafts should have marks on them. These need to be facing each other while the RT is facing the pickup you have in your picture. Id guess from how you described it the cam marks will be facing away from each other.

edit, you do need to rejet but i dont think you have a carb problem. especially since you had it running before. As a note for you, its a bad idea to modify anything thats not working properly in the first place. 1 step at a time:)
 

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Newbie
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The K&N filter was on the bike when i bought it, and didnt get the original airbox with it. supposedly they had done a stage 3 dynojet to it, but i'm not sure if that was before or after putting the K&N on.

the pilot screws are the ones on the bottom right? and they have the little needle with the spring and tiny gasket? if so yes i pulled those out and cleaned them.

with the camshafts I will post pictures of when i put them back in. but the two notches were facing eachother, sort of... I tried following the haynes manual with the 2 and 1 on the exhaust cam, and the 3 with the 18th chain rivet landinng on that. the problem i ran into was the follower was preventing it from going into place properly, so instead of the 2 being directly up, it was more like at 11 o'clock. then i secured the cams with the journal caps and manually cranked it to where it was supposed to be before i put the tensioner back on.

oh and i found this link about bench syncing carbs and i'll check that too.
http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/how-tos-section/426468-how-bench-sync-your-carbs.html
 

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GURU
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8,827 Posts
there are marks on the actual end of the cam shaft and not the ones on the sprockets themselves.

and for the pilot screws they dont go in all the way. they are usually somewhere between 2-3 turns out from full tight(but dont tighten them, just turn them lightly until they seat, then back them out). Before you took the carbs apart did you make a note of where they were set? The pilot screws on your carbs are on the bottom near the carb boots(where they meet the head). They are inside a casting just in front of the float bowl.

http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/Photos/CarbnJetPhotos/GS500ECarburetorV(97)-W(98)-X(99)-Y(00).jpg

#31 in that pic
 

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Buell Fighter
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2,114 Posts
The K&N filter was on the bike when i bought it, and didnt get the original airbox with it. supposedly they had done a stage 3 dynojet to it, but i'm not sure if that was before or after putting the K&N on.

oh and i found this link about bench syncing carbs and i'll check that too.
http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/how-tos-section/426468-how-bench-sync-your-carbs.html
Rules out the K&N then. That's progress!!

Your bench sync link isn't too bad, but here is another way:

http://www.sohc4.net/index.php?q=node/222

I don't think that would cause the bike to not run, but it may cause it to not run properly at idle...and it's just one more thing you can rule out.

It sounds like you got the cams timed close, but that little difference can be big. Definitely check that out soon.

EDIT: Like shift is saying, make sure your idle/air mixture screws are all within range of each other. 2.5 turns out from a light seat is a good place to start.
 

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Newbie
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
awesome, ya i remember tightening those pilot screws all the way, not too tight, but just till they stopped moving.

I'll report back when i've done my laundry list :D

i'm hoping if i have to take the valve cover off i don't have to remove the engine again(largest pain ever for a 1 man show)
 

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GURU
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8,827 Posts
awesome, ya i remember tightening those pilot screws all the way, not too tight, but just till they stopped moving.

I'll report back when i've done my laundry list :D

i'm hoping if i have to take the valve cover off i don't have to remove the engine again(largest pain ever for a 1 man show)
you definitely need to back those pilot screws out at least 2.5 turns to get you started. They are what what meters the amount of fuel you have from closed throttle to 1/4 open throttle. Or rather they adjust the amount in relation to the air through the carb. with them closed all the way the bike should have started with starting fluid and maybe the throttle 1/2 open. This should be your first step but you need to be 100% sure your timing is correct as well before you do any damage.
 

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Newbie
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ok i got home, and did a few things.

first i adjusted the pilots about 2 or 3 turns out i think.

second i tweaked the idle screw because it wasnt even giving any tension. I may do it more though

i tried doing a compression test, but the one i got from autozone was not for bikes so i tried holding the end over the hole, but i only got to 30 psi before i couldnt hold it down anymore.

i checked my plugs, and they look like they have some oil on them even though they are new.
link to a large image of the plug
http://gs500resurrection.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/dsc00880.jpg

i took a pic of the carbs too for some reason just in case anyone sees anything
http://gs500resurrection.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/dsc00867.jpg

and i took a pic of the cams when i put them in
http://gs500resurrection.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/dsc00850.jpg

they line up if you look at the big picture you can see how the notches are. the one on the right is at about 8 o clock and the one on the left is at about 2 o clock.

when i secured them though i cranked it to the right so they should line up where they are facing eachother.

i also took some video of me cranking away

this one is standing still

this one is push start

thats all i did i think. oh and i torqued my plugs down to like 30 ft lbs because i didnt have them torqued enough as far as ngk website was concerned.

thanks
 

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GURU
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8,827 Posts
First off a word of caution. You shouldnt crank a motorcycle that long. You will burn your starter up. If it doesnt "catch" in like 5 rotations of the engine give it a second to rest.

Im not sure what the sound was when you tried to push start it but it sounded bad. The good news is I didnt hear it when you were cranking the bike.

On the spark plugs, i have never used a torque wrench. When plugs are new they have a crush washer on them. Typically you hand tighten the plugs then go another 1/2 turn or so to seat the crush washer. If NGK site said 30ftlbs and you did that its all good.

The plug is definitely wet. Did it smell like gas? are you 100% sure you are getting spark? Are you still able to drain fuel out of the float bowls?

On the cams, you need to be 100% sure you see those notches line up. Turn the engine by hand using a wrench(18 or 19mm probably) until those marks line up. Cam timing is not something you want to be pretty sure about. You want to be positive. And when the marks point towards each other was the TF mark lined up on your ignition pickup?
 

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Newbie
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21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ok i checked the plugs again. they are definately sparking. they smelled like gas/oil mix i think. i am still able to drain gass from the floats after cranking.

i got some starter fluid to spray directly into the carbs (and now i think i might be high from the ether...) when i used that i got it to fire for a sec but didnt have the gas tank on so not sure if it would have kept going anyway.

when i put the cams in i had the mark on the crank set to the RT | Mark.
you can see it in this img


but i cranked them after i had them secured so the notches would match up. which would have pushed that mark up a little.
 

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Buell Fighter
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2,114 Posts
So it definitely fired when you sprayed starter fluid in there??

Last time I had a problem like this on a buddy's R6 he took it to the dealer (against my wishes) and they almost popped him for 400 dollars (they were going to pull the carbs, that I had just completely cleaned, and clean them) but instead put new plugs in the bike....it fired right up.

If it fired with starter fluid I have to say it's something simple like gas or new plugs....
 

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Newbie
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
yeah it for sure fired. it didnt start but it had a loud burst like it ignited the stuff.

maybe i'll clean the old plugs and put them back in and try those, get some new gas in the tank, and try fresh...
 
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