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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so, Im excited to be building a 2 wheeled weapon again.

So Im keeping details hush hush, a few people here will be PM'd with some privileged info, or direct questions but no other details will be posted regarding donor bike, or the fucking wild direction I have planned.

What I will say is Im getting this bike for cheap, like cheap enough that even if the motor is shot, I could swap in something else and not hurt the slightest. Its old, and it will not be a café.

This bike will be utilitarian, minimal, built for comfort, usefull ness, and the general look I enjoy.

And I will be going slowly, Very slowly. In fact, I do not anticipating riding this for at least a year if not more. What it will be however is my attempt at creating a slightly new element of genre bending motorcycledom.

I will not build for power,
I will not build for handling,
I will not build for braking,
I will not build for bling in any shape,
I will not build to fit a mold.

What I will build, is taking the artistic approach, step back and let my hands and tools shape the material into the final form. This one will be built how I should have built my old 7R, slow with an incredible amount of attention to detail.

Now a lot of you, specially the newer guys here, will read this and think "What tha fuck?"
My response is simply, even these older bikes like this one while it may appear to be near caveman level technology in the motorcycle community, their performance across the board is still more than enough to make even seasoned riders grin un controllable ear to ear, and make new riders pucker up and stain their drawers.

Now I am buying this for a long term project, however the very first thing I will do is make a brand new wiring harness, from head to tail and everything in between. And then get the carbs dialed in with some pod air filters. Those are the two bits keeping this thing from coming to life at this moment.

And the details I will share, now, will be slim.
Certain things shall be done purely for asthetical reasons, again their is a specific look I am going for here.
Certain things may appear wrong in the traditional sense, and while it may be true, on this build they will be write.
Their are things I will need, and Ill need them as cheap as possible.
A/N fittings for well, everything at this point.
Braided lines between them as well.
Probably small bits machined here and their, things I can do with a set of hand files.
Random small connectors and bits ect.

This is only a 600, I know the stocks bike top speed is only around 130, I understand the limitations of this platform. But anymore, I really don't consider myself a rider. As much as that saddens me to type it is the truth. Ive had way to many near misses myself, lost a few friends over the years, and saw way to many of us get fucked up to keep throwing leg over myself. Ive got to much that depends on me in one piece, my 4 kids, and Ashlee my wife. I wouldn't want to put them through getting the call I had been ran over, or hit, or lost control, or this or that or so on. I wouldn't want them to stand over my hospital bed hooked to more machines than remaining fingers. But that is not to say, I wouldn't take it out for back road rides from time to time.

This will be built to satisfy my own desire to build something different than anything else out their. This is to feed my need to make something, sculpt something. And potentially leave my own mark on motorcycledom as we know it.
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Im busy doodling away at work, and Im pleased to announce I have settled on 2 ideas I have to accomplish with this build.

1st, head light will be two mini projectors maybe 2.5" in diameter stacked vertically, and off set with an anodized oil cooler mounted vertically next to them as well.

2nd Idea is a bit tricky, I want to mount dual rims and tires in a single swing arm out back.
WHAT THA FOOOOK !?!?!
Yes again, unconcerned about handling, just want a particular look, and this idea would really set it off.
Ive asked one highly respected member here for his input, but glad to take on others ideas as well.

Im thinking mounting 2 thinner 100mm wide fronts on each wheel, attach them together some way and mount in swing arm. Im stuck at the mounting ideas at the moment, but once I have the bike in front of me to reference things Ill have more ability to trouble shoot.
 

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lɐʇuǝɯᴉɹǝdx&#4
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3,518 Posts
I don't think the dual rear tire idea is compatible with "bike will be utilitarian, minimal, built for comfort, usefullness". You'd effectively have a very square rear section tire. There's guys who darkside it facing similar issues, so it may well be ridable... but it doesn't seem the minimal / useful idea.

As to how to go about mounting them both, you could maybe do what snow bicycle racers sometimes did before super-fat rims and tires were introduced; lace two rims to the same hub, side by side. Spoke lengths and angles (not to mention hub drilling) would probably make it a bitch on a motorcycle, maybe even require a custom (or at least modified) hub. On bicycles its not to tough to manage because the spokes are flexy and its easy to find hubs drilled with double the number of holes a rim has (like say 64 spoke hubs and 32 spoke rims.) Some guys even ran 3 rims, with the center one being a bit larger than the others, to allow leaning. But since these were for snow racing, leaning wasn't a big factor.



 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well the wheel aspect is up in the air on this one, I really don't have a preference personally to spokes of alloys.

So start with proper width rear hub, and figure out how to lace two hoops onto the hubs?

Anyone have combos to suggest for the hub, and hoop combos.

I shall go search for the tires I intend on running and see what I can find for narrow rears and hopefully cross reerance it with hoops, and amount of spokes.

Anyone know if a TW200 had disc brakes as an option? That strikes me right away about a nice wide hub assembly.
 

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UnicycleMode
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7,584 Posts
Do you want a gap between the tires or can they touch in the center? The TW's, from what I know, were always a small drum out back.


Older the dirtbike, the wider the hub from my experience. XR's had a pretty wide cushless hub that was a common spoke count.
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Lets look at another aspect for this problem, is a cush drive needed?
Stock horsepower is close to 90, torque is 40 lb-ft.

If a cush drive isn't needed, I could get away with using two 17" fronts, and simply bolt the together at the brake mounting points (spacer if needed) Then make an adaptor for a sprocket, and a disc brake on other side.

If I used a swing arm off lets say a 2010ZX6R, theres enough room to stuff a 200mm rear tire in there, 200 mm in inches is 7 7/8", which is on paper enough room to mount 2, 3" wide tires in with an inch of space between them and 7/8" to split evenly on the sides.

Here more details to clarify.
Ive got tire combo figured out already, Shinkos website is amazing with all the measurements.

Ill be running Shinkos 244 dual sport 60/40 rubber.
Front will be a 4.60-17, rear tire. Measurement wise its close to a 120/70r17
244 is
24.76" diameter, 4.3" wide
120/70r17 is
23.67" diameter, 4.8" wide

For the rear(s)
Shinkos 244
3.0-17
23.7" diameter, 3.15" width, doubling that figure is 6.3" figure a bit of a gap between them to allow for tire expansion and contraction.
A 190/50r17 is 24.49" diameter, 7.48" diameter width.
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Im looking at a 1985 XR250 rear wheel assembly on ebay right now.
85$, has right hoop diameter and width for the front to begin with, common so spokes wouldn't be an issue.
Then just need to source front hub.

Anyone know of any dual disc front hubs, that are off the shelf production bike?

If I have to go for a single disc up front, and I assuming larger diameter brake rotor and more pistons on the caliper = decent braking right?
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Something modern though?
and 36 spoke?
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Mount CBR rotors to the 36 spoke 360 hub....
And you sir are de man!

Ok so tires wheels and brakes are counted for then.

Get to relax the thinker for a bit tonight.
 

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Registered
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You sir have peaked my interest! I think it's awesome that you want to build something different! Build something that you want to build, f*ck what people think. If you want to do it then do it. Definitely gonna be following this one and can't wait to see where the creative process takes you!:thumbsup:
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks, just remember I do plan on going slow for all this.
The dual rear wheel thing has my mind peaked, trying to visualize it all, impact to handling, whole nine yards.

Then I got to think, chain down the center of them would just require a jack shaft.... But nothing gained from doing it that way, and would further widen the track out back as well. So we will keep with the chain on the left, brake on the right format.

If anyone could photoshop me a rendering Id be extremely thankful too! Im leaning towards a 2012 series ZX6R swinger, kinda digging the monolithic look to it, even if it limits me to a "normal" rear shock linkage set up.

What Im doing with the planning stages is taking, well the rear end for example, and over thinking it, figuring out ways to make it as unique as possible. Even if it means going so far against the grain I get splinters. So I start with rear wheel, well not many run endure rubber, then how else to make it different, I know lets over complicate it and try dual tires single swingarm. But its an idea at this point is set in stone for this build.

And that's how this build will go, finding the most unique off the wall way of doing any single component, and making it happen any way shape or form. This idea the dual rear tires, was actually pretty easy. Take something like exhaust, or bars where their are already a million different choices and examples and Ill really have to step up my game for it.

Im playing around with front end ideas at the moment as well, got crappy sketches while I was at work of quad forks, USD's, fork sleeves, ect. Nothing is just out there, or crazed industrial madman cobbling together shit in the post WWIII wastelands sort of ideas. Front end of course, I do have plenty of time to has out the details on, crumple thm up, tossem in the bin, and repeat a hundred times over.

Oh and Im keeping track of my inner mad scientist on this build with a notebook that will eventually be full of ideas. Already about ten pages of wheel and tire measurements alone at this point. Some of these dimensions are hard to find online, at least for me. So if you guys know some of them, please by all means chime in, as it will speed the idea development stages greatly.

And to the poster who said this isn't exactly minimal, your right. And upon further reflection, I don't want this to be considered minimal either. I want this to be as in your face absurdly impossible as, well possible. I want to reuse various components of motorbikes, 4 wheelers, dirty bikes, jet skies, sleds, cars trucks, fuck anything, and make them function as an entirely different part. Im going over the top, fuck it, why not. Like I said, riding isn't a huge deal for me anymore, dragging knee, or fastest lap times, longest wheely is all shit I could careless about. What I care about and enjoy is the building. Will I toss leg over on this with a helmet and jacket on, damned straight I will. Ill have to take plenty of finished product pictures, and since this will be my mark on the motorcycle world in some way shape or form, Ill over do that as well.

Now the reason why I will be as over the top as possible for this, Ive wanted to build from the ground up, craft something unique to my individual tastes and desires.

Ok well, Im done rambling, attempting to explain my fractured deviated thought processes. Its hard enough for me to understand myself at times.

In other news, tax return is in, getting new rubber for the Z71 tomarrow since these bald mismatched tires aren't safe enough to drive around town anymore, let alone go pick up the damned bike to begin with anyways. Getting some stock sized 265/75r16 good year wrangler authorities, ran em on the explorer previously and their damned good tire. Actually tomarrow is gunna be busy too, pick up and set up new tv, tires, get some random gun bits ordered and the such.
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
DUH DUH DUH DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

The apocalypse comes... in the back of my truck.

So loaded up my son, and cousin took a little road trip, at some point this jumped into the back of the truck.


Ok well didn't exactly jump, but you know.

So I got this 1991 zx600r clean clear title, for $300 bucks. I have the front seat, and the gas tank, their just in the bed. Carbs are also down their, in need of getting dialed in still however.
Two weeks ago guy sent me these two pics show a bit more detail.



So this shall be the basis for the apocalypse build.
Under powered, over weight, crappy brakes and suspension.
But I have plans you see, you will ALL see!


And I still need to dig into it, its dusty but about everything is there aside from the knee panels and airbox. Bars are straight, pegs and cases don't appear to have any rash. I know carbs will need dialed in, as well as it needs wiring harness rapaired or replaced and a fresh battery.

So around 70$ worth of gas to get it and get it home, 4 hours of as my son called it " A man trip" And $300 for a titled bike.

Good deal, good day, good fun.
But Im tired.
 

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UnicycleMode
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7,584 Posts
Under powered, over weight


:doh:


Your kidding right?? RIGHT???? :nuts:

Lest we be reminded the '85 model made PLENTY of power! And even with a dual shock conversion, 17's, more frame than it ever came with (gussets, gussets, and more gussets!), and to top it off a mad port job, new valves, new pistons, all stock components just refreshed! It was a monster for "only a 600"... pffffff, gimme a break! The howl of an inline four is intoxicating to say the least! Don't sell the old water zeds short man, they are a hell of a bike. ;)


(The front end is far from the ground in this helmet cam pic. No lack of power there! :D :rock:)





I can say after riding it, and TocTuning proves it in this pic, it's not heavy, feels about like a 636 when you swap on 17's, pretty mellow on its feet.




Because it's winter... and you called it heavy and underpowered. :D :letsride:










So, it's outdated, not heavy and underpowered. :D:fu::D



(Totally in a good mood today. Just ribbin' ya man. :D)
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I loved Zed dude,
Yea I guess under powered and over weight isn't exactly true, in all honesty the bike was pretty cake to get into the truck, maybe 400 pounds or so. And rated 90 horse power really isn't bad either, spec wise it truly isn't bad as far as horse power to weight ratio, but suspension wise its obviously lacking.

In other news with the build, I do intend on keeping the stock tank and seat. I know on zed you used a r6 tail light, how exactly did you pull that one off?

And sadly I must admit the bike is STILL in the back of the truck still.
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Im hoping to get this out of the truck tomarrow so expect more pictures.

And I need a source for the wiring connectors used in wiring harnesses, this will have aftermarket lights, gauges, switches, but will still need stock engine electronics. I don't mind doing non kawi original stuff for the afterkarket stuffs, but do need sources for things like starter, cdi ect. Ill know more of what I need come tomarrow.
 

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That guy
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4,468 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Its out!
Front brake was locked up, so pulled the calipers and got it moving. Discovered a few interesting things.

In honestly decent shape, missing a few things too airbox, knee panels and one side of the rear panel as well. Im pretty sure the remaining pieces will be tossed onto ebay.

But its got some goodies in there too, notice the crank breather, and it has a similar breather connected to a hose going to the valve cover also. And its also got a Yoshi exhaust header is also partially wrapped.

But it has its fair share of WTFs as well, check this out.

Couple of these are sank nearly flush, never seen anything like it either. And does anyone know what models of bikes share the same bolt pattern for a nice machined keyless cap?
And Im thinking my dual tire idea will not work, chain rides really close as is to the frame, maybe 10mm away.

Ill know more once the swingarm is changed out. There is plenty of space between the stock 130 rear tire and the chain, worse case I can still rock a single enduro tire out back. From what I can see if I keep the chain run the same, maybe drop down to a thinner chain I couple probably squeeze a 180 out back
So all in all not bad for $300 bucks.

Subframe bolts on and off, tank while solid and matches to the seat perfectly, could be changed out, with the dual tubes I could go the way Rob went and weld in a single tube, or find something that will fit over the tubes. If I opt to keep the stock tank, I think I will spray some foam up by the front where its got the mounting tabs for the front fairing, smooth it all out and then put a bit of fiberglass down on top.

This bit is also pretty comfy as is, but I do plan on some low rise dirty bars, maybe chop em up to mount them in clip ons or something. And the pegs, I plan on moving them forward a bit.

Need to figure out all the connectors I will need for running the various electronics I plan on using too. LED turns, and tail light, head lights, so on and so on. Know Ill be needing a battery, but that will wait awhile. And given I only glanced, but do these bikes have an oil cooler?

That is all.
 
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