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Monster
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7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All my friends ride, yep you guessed it HD. Now I love HDs but they are just not what I'm looking for right now. A few of my friends have springer front forks on their rides. The other day I was looking at one and thought how that would look on a sport bike. If some of you don't know what a "springer front end" is there is a pic below. Just wanted your thoughts and any ideas.
 

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I bang metal
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2,779 Posts
just because you can doesnt mean you should. The closest peopel have come to springers is girders and most of them look like shit too.
 

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ShamanFighter
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ThaSick1
 

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lɐʇuǝɯᴉɹǝdx&#4
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> The closest peopel have come to springers is girders

Tony Faole built and sold leading link forks for racing in the '70s and '80s. Still not a springer, but also not a girder.

From Tony's Picassa Collection - https://picasaweb.google.com/113749999061223276003/FunnyFrontEndsFFE


Take a design like that and replace the low mounted shocks with an inverted U shaped bridge running up to a shock above the wheel, and you effectively have a springer. Might even look pretty cool and could ride rather well.

Problem is, most commercially made springers have lousy damping and the geometry (wheel path, trail, leg length, etc) is set up around typical cruiser dimensions / angles, brakes, etc. Would need the right design geometry, engineering choices, and good fabrication to match the behavior of even a rather average stock sports bike fork.

Girders are more common though, and can look sick.

Of course, there's also Norman Hassock's new personal ride... kinda sorta looks like a springer, but isn't.
 

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watches you sleep.
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9,116 Posts
Yeah I dunno man a springer wouldnt look right on a sport bike. I like the girders though, some of them anyways I cant say Ive seen all of them. Been seeing a lot of single sided front ends lately. Mortagua Fighter build some crazy shit and they almost always have a SSFE. I agree with Dan though, just because you can doesnt mean you should but that goes for way more than just springers.
 

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I bang metal
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2,779 Posts
Wouldn't call it a sport bike, but there's bikes that are not cruisers where a springer can look damn good.

Fomr BikeExif - http://www.bikeexif.com/triumph-t100-ss
to me things like this work and look like they should be together.

I am sure somebody has made a girder for a sport bike that i would like but i have not found it yet. IMO just slapping on a springer meant for a harley or xs or whatever "chopper" you choose would just be dumb, if you would make a frame that looks closer to a traditional tube cradle frame and put it on there it would be pretty awesome.

Who was the guy with the "rat rod r1"? that bike bike honestly made me laugh
 

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Fast ZX-12R
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I remember that. That had to be one of the longest newbie threads ever.
 

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I'd LOVE to have one of those Tony Foale leading-link forks on my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber" ('82 CB900F Bol D'Or based homage to the '65 CB450K0 Black Bomber - DUH.) if I had that, plus the GL1500 based fake front drum hub (CBX550F style wire-spoke conversion) then I could really say I was making an effort with this build - More to the point I could build it as a "CB902" - homage to the '59 CB92 Benly Super-Sport!

Which only makes me love the Tony Foale fork LESS. Because it makes too much of an effort to look like a conventional telescopic. Seeing as he'd targeted the CB900F & CBX for the main market/application of this fork, IMHO he should've done something more like the CB92 & CA72/CB77 Dream/SuperDream forks (the dream links curved around and connected into one half-loop at the rear of the wheel - bonus points for the stability inherent to that design, wouldn't you say?) With both the flat sheet-metal sides yes, but also the very narrow YOKE at the top, wherein the steering stem could sit up inside of a larger diameter tube, with a cut-out at the back for the clearance around the frame - to whit the whole "Triple-Tree" area of the bike would be half as wide as the frame, VERY narrow compared to most other systems. This way, tons of room for oil-cooler lines & duct venting etc throughout the whole bubble fairing you might stick on the thing. I'd love to see it naked yes, but don't forget Tony Foale's main area of operations was the ENDURANCE RACING theatre, and a bubble fairing was de rigeuer - Whether you like fairings or not!

I've got a Duck 900SS bubble fairing for the Bol Bomber, but it might go on my Ex-Daughter's "KZ440LOL" - For one thing, the "916" (the cock-blockin' kid) number plate would be soooo much more appropriate for HER to ride. heh-heh. Much as I love that #, derived from the "96" (the beastly back-to-back) - my older married life version of the stereotypical "69" (the beast with two backs) that EVERYBODY and his DAWG paints on their bike - much as I like both of those, I'm also diggin' the "06" which I originally sketched on the fibreglass. In the end, I think I'm gonna use peel-&-stick vinyl numbers, to change "facial expression" on a whim. Would be interesting to see what happens in the wind & rain ha-ha. Maybe some light adhesive would be best advised? Either way yeah, I'm building the bike both WITHOUT the fairing for starters - then adding the fairing after the fact. Like a proper aftermarket kit-fairing should be done, in traditional fashion.



The bike - as it presently sits, nowhere near finished with the major work of wire-spoke wheel swap still to come, plus the paint - an eventual fork swap to GL1500 front end for 41mm TRAC fork (Freddie Spencer's '82 "CB750F" AHM/RCS AMA Superbike Daytona championship bike had the prototype for the '88 GL1500 fork) or better still, the ST1100-ABS had one right-hand-side TRAC mechanism in 43mm, and it looks plenty "ambidextrous" indeed....



Here's a dilemma for you - which RIMS to choose? I've got like 6-7 pairs of alloy wire-spoke rims already ON HAND. Either with me, or at Buchanan's in California getting drilled or spoked.


(If you're curious? RIMS:)
(((2.50x18" Borrani & 3.50x18" Super-Akront [period-correct, works-team-only CB1100R sizes], 3.50x16" Super-Akront & 4.25x18"[ "Freddie Spencer Replica" style] 3.00x18" Morad un-drilled & 4.25x18" Akront (drilled for a different rear hub this time, front one I'm thinking about a GL1500 based "Faux-Leading-Shoe" fake DRUM style hub!) 2.50x18" & 4.25x17" 40-spoke [GL1000 or CB750KZ size-ish] 3.50x16" Akront & 5.00x17" 40-spoke [VF1000R & CBR900RR sizes] 3.00x16" Borrani & 3.50x16" Super-Akront ["Bobber-ish", yes - but also Ducati F1 Montjuich sizes!] 2.15x19" & 3.50x16" [probably never gonna BUILD a chopper, but my pal has a '75 XLH] 2.50x18" & 3.00x18" [stock sizes on "pedestrian" CB1100R, CB900F2 aka BORING - the 3.50x18" Super-Akront weighs less than Boranni 3.0" anyhow] And STILL shopping for MORE! It's my hope to collect all of these same sizes in Akront "NERVI" rims so I can build wider AND lighter OEM Honda COMSTAR wheels!)))

For HUBS though, of course I've got the Honda SOHC hubs of several types (And still hunting for CB750P7 Police-bike FIVE-bolt dual-disc front hub!!!) I'm considering my best options for that rear wheel - the SOHC rear disc hub is ridiculously heavy! The Suzuki 4LS weighs just as much - the center wheel portion only! UGH. So I've got KZ1000A/KZ750B rear conical, is very LIGHT but none of my pre-drilled rims will fit, and it's composite & glued with epoxy. YIKES. KZ1000CSR/KZ1000LTD (48/40 spokes) are even heavier. Got some GT750J 4LS drums (for my Ex-Daughter's "KZ440LOL" project, the front wheel in my Avatar pic is 3.00x16" with Suzuki 4LS drum, for 110/70-16 Maxi-Scooter spec low-profile radial tire, 140 in the rear, NOS belt-drive, etc etc) but also some front GT750K+ dual-DISC hubs 36-spoke. And I'm contemplating a GS1000 rear disc/wire-spoke rear hub -

There are several of my rear rims drilled for HARLEY, meaning they'll get a Honda FRONT hub with bolt-up cush-drive etc, hopefully TO SHAVE WEIGHT, smaller disc etc. 'Cause that SOHC rear disc hub is a BEAST - I know the KZ1000LTD 40-spoke is heavier, as I had the 48-spoke KZ1000CSR version on hand at one point. I guess the GS1000 is supposed to be 40-spoke, yes? Well - the "Front Hub Trick" is my ideal plan to move forward with. Then the 4.25x18" Akront that's drilled for a bigger rear hub will go on one of my planned future projects:

V65 Magna/Sabre based replica of the '60s Grand Prix racer the CZ Type 860, with a fairing from Geoff Duke's '57 Gilera racer, for a "Tube-Frame INTERCEPTOR" with additional 100cc's - plus there's the Russ Collins RC-engineering 1230cc stroker crank kit, though IIRC there's actually an 860cc kit for the VF750S or VF750C I forget which - Now THAT would be fortuitous 'cause the V45's were a lot more common and cheap on the 2nd-hand market! 16" front and 18" rear of course - Would love to do a BELT-DRIVE conversion though the entire "excuse" for this project was the rim drilled for a bigger rear hub, matched to a shaft-drive system which requires the bigger hub, using the "weld-up rear hub" method (6pkrunner's CB900C wire-spoke conversion on www.cb750c.com, a method which would put wire-spoke wheels on ANY bike and a very straight-forward swap too! Not the bolt-up flange plates, but a WELDED hub not unlike the Kosman Industries' Weld-Widened RIMS - cheaper, simpler, easier though!) Picture it though - a tube-framed wire-spoked VF1000F of 1230cc's capacity (PLUS a big-bore job? How big could it GO?) and probably lighter than the factory VF1000R and/or VF1000F - How awesome would this build be? Makes me wanna drop this whole Bol Bomber project and start over!!!

GL1200/GL1500 based replica of the Swiss "DLF-1000" Goldwing ENDURANCE RACER,

OR a replica of the Jawa 350 V4 based on the Honda MXV250F V3 too-smoke (IDENTICAL)

(ah, but I guess that last one would be best suited to a 2.50x16" from Mike's XS650 with a CBX550F front hub, 'cause the MXV had a single-sided version of that same brake - plus a 3.00x18" rear or 3.50x18" rear - the 4.25"x18" would be far too wide & heavy.....)

ANYWAY - here's a couple of sets of rims I'm ruminating over right now - the 4.25x18" of course but which FRONT wheel? The 3.00x18" is waiting for the GL1500 front hub but here's a pic with a 2.50x18" for starters. Versus the 3.50x16" up front - Which also gives an idea of that OTHER set I'm considering, the 2.50x18" with 3.50x18", 'cause this is the same profile & appearance in that they're both 3.50" Super-Akront rims just 16" vs 18" - Put two & two together & you can KINDA picture that 3rd set. I'm building all three of these sets, but the "skinny" version goes on the next DOHC-4 that I wanna build for my Ex-Daughter, when she out-grows her "KZ440LOL" - ((((Or should I just give her the 985 and jump on that V65 project???)))*COUGH* Yes as I was saying, a feather-weight DOHC 750 maybe a 'K or a 'C, but with 39mm fork from the 900, 296mm dual-disc upgrade (from 276mm stock) with a DUST-BIN fairing probably DIY 'cause they're expensive to purchase let alone ship!

Suffice to say, ALL of these wheel sets will get used at some point or another. I think over the long-haul, the 18/18 FAT set will be a better choice for the Bol Bomber, but the 18/18 SKINNY set will be lighter & more authentic old's-cool looking. Meanwhile the 16/18 will likely only look good with the Fairing, or maybe NOT ha-ha, but it's pretty "RAD" (German for bicycle?) and true to the '80s Superbike roots. Truly though the 18" front wheel will be an eventuality, 'cause I really want that fake front drum hub, the "Faux-Leading-Shoe" made from GL1500 - stock 296mm rotors but rear GL1500SE fits 'em too at 316mm - for which, the 310mm CBR forks could work, or the 320mm forks from Triumph Speed Triple etc - Tough call. IMHO the 296mm dual-disc would be perfectly adequate. With the GL1500 41mm fork - not the maximum AHRMA size of 43mm but still plenty beefy for this model. And it's got the historic significance of the '82 AMA Superbike look etc - again, very appropriate to the model and the '80s Superbike roots. With 296mm rotors, which I've already got on the bike, presumably the "Faux-Leading-Shoe" front end could bolt straight up with the fork & brake calipers I've already got. So yeah, build it that way first. If a bike only "NEEDS" the 276mm rotors the PC800 Pacific Coast front "drum" style brake would be waaaay easier to convert than the GL1500 - they look like both will take the same rotors but sadly they don't. Well whatever - it's my INTENT to improve upon what's available in the form of the CBX550F fake drum, 230mm rotors albeit vented double-thick automotive style just like the CB1100R rotors that are on the bike NOW, only they're 230mm! I'd say a dual 276mm would be a massive improvement on that (GL1000, CB1100F, most GL1200's etc) but the 296mm version MUST BE BUILT - so too with the 316mm upgrade which will require some bigger DIY rotor shrouds but WTF - same hub, so building a 296mm version is essentially the same thing, without the complication of making new TRAC hangers. So too the GL1500 fork - the 41mm is "less" than the 43mm ST1100-ABS version but it's got a right-hand AND a left-hand fork, so the ST1100 either has to be a one-side-only TRAC mechanism OR one motherfucker of a VERY complicated conversion! Plus, the earlier 41mm version ST1100 fork, the police bikes got an extra thick fork tube with a narrower coil spring inside. Now THAT should settle any questions of the fork being stiff enough! Gotta wonder too, whether the fork tubes WITH the spring inside, paired up like that - whether it's any heavier due to the narrower spring? Just a brain-fart. If it's at all possible to translate those tubes & springs over to the GL1500 then you get their fork CAPS as well - far better than the GL1500 caps which need a special clamp tool for removal, and have a dealy like spring-loaded-weapon grade of preload on the springs. Not a simple road-side disassembly by any stretch of the imagination. Yes - I picture the GL1500 with ST1100-Police tubes & springs, using an aftermarket or modified fork cap, pre-load adjusters etc - but retro-fried with bakelite knobs on top! Better than the fugly purple anodized billet crap on offer! Ha-ha.

Well whatever - THAT's my reason for wanting the 3.00x18" front wheel on the bike, eventually. AND my reason for not going straight to it and sticking a GL1000 dual-disc hub inside of the thing. Might as well use these here Harley AMF-era un-marked Borrani 2.50x18" rims, hey? (Rear wheel, '75 XLH Sportster etc - talk about mass centralization, Borrani rims on a bike that heavy! Ha-ha) Meanwhile the NOS Super-Akront 3.50x16" first appeared on my parts-pile as a rear wheel for the KZ440LOL (yep, as in "laugh out loud"! Hence the clown-shoe wheels! - But also appropriate to the internet build AND teenaged-GRRRL rider aspects!) Only the belt-drive prevents me from putting that fat of a tire on the rear end anyhow, and the thought of matched 3.00x16" rims front rear and possible 3rd side-hack wheel is massively appealing - if only I'd used the same hub on front AND rear, with a bolt-up cush - then I could use a 4th spare wheel on the back of the bucket, like an old Beemer R75 war-bike! Ha-ha. Anyway yeah, the Super-Akront rim became superfluous. Luckily for my HONDA!!!

Whatever - as promised, HERE are some pics of rims:
 

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(((Hey, I can't help it if your minuscule attention span has rendered you functionally illiterate. Not enough pictures? WTF.)))

Like I was saying - the dilemma about the wire-spoke rims. What SIZES? Here's a couple of sets on hand at the moment:

First, the 2.50x18"/4.25x18" set, matched diameter but MIS-matched in the profiles, shouldered/flanged/valanced BORRANI front vs non-valanced AKRONT rear


(Dig my "Motorcycle Wheel-Chair" in the background? Well if not, then YOU come up with a better use for a heavy-assed 1.85x19" 7-spoke Kawasaki mag wheel off of a KZ440LTD!)


Next, the 3.50x16" Super-Akront up front with the same rear, in 4.25x18" - Akront.


http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq302/SoyBoySigh/100_0869_zpsr3cyzy1u.jpg

((("Super-Akront" was an earlier vintage series. There are even "Super-Akront" vintage bicycle HANDLEBARS - you'd better believe I want a pair of THEM cut in half & stuffed into my clip-on clamps, plus some stickers on the fairing!)))


For examples of these bikes with these sizes of rims on 'em? Well of course, the Freddie Spencer / MIKE BALDWIN '82 AHM/RSC AMA-Superbike Daytona championship 1023cc "CB750F" with 3.00x16" & 4.00x18" DYMAG Magnesium 3-spoke cast wheels




2.50x18 & 4.25x18 - and wire-spoke no less, with the same Cal-Fab swing-arm and rim sizes as I'm talking about here, on a CBX by "CBXtacy" on the DOHC Honda 'F-orums, Four-ums, and Six-ums



SKINNY 18/18 rims, here seem to be in 2.50x18" & 3.00x18" but might also be in 2.15x19" & 2.50x18" OEM sizes for all I know.

Gotta ask yourself though - you think I'M nuts, talking about building a fake drum hub from GL1500 front end, what about these guys

who seem to keep putting this same dinky lil' 200mm Suzuki 4LS drum hub as I've got on the Kid's "KZ440LOL" (& feeling like an asshole for it, at THAT), a drum 50mm wide so basically 125% the stopping power (at double the weight) as a 200mm 2LS front drum off of a 1963 CB72 Hawk 250cc twin - on the front end of a CBX 1000cc six-cylinder from '78-'82 - not only quadruple the displacement power & speed, but WEIGHT. Now THAT'S screwing around with a 4LS drum hub!

For a more accurate comparison of the "SKINNY" 18/18 set? The factory works-spec CB1100R '82 '83 Endurance Racers
(not a great pic of the wheels, but fuck is this thing awesome or what?)

came with a 2.50x18" & 3.50x18" Gold Boomerang Comstar (3.00x18" on privately owned/bought CB1100R's as well as the CB900F2 in silver, 2.75x18" five-spoke on CB1100RB & CBX Pro-Link) And as well there's a CBX with Comstar rims re-built with Akront "NERVI" rims, which IMHO appear to be at least 2.50x18" front & 3.50x18" rear maybe 4.25x18" rear but I think probably narrower) The Akront "NERVI" is another rim I'm keen to collect. My wire-spoke Akront 4.25x18" weighs the SAME as the disassembled 2.50x18" from CB750F/CB900F rear wheel in the background of the picture up above - If the "NERVI" profile is anywhere near as light, then we're talking about a 50% reduction if you go to the same sizes as stock. And I've got a reliable source on 2.50x18" & 3.00x18" sizes - Just looking for 3.50x18" and/or 4.25x18" to know which one I want up front! Should probably get 'em both while I STILL CAN!!!

Well - wire-spokes are first. THEN I wanna put some widened Comstar rims on a 2010+ CB1100, do it up as an 'R-eplica.....

Pretty sure the 2.50x18" & 3.50x18" were the first stock sizes of the cast/mag 5/10-spoke rims on the 2010 CB1100, and that the 3.00x18" & 4.25x18" are the sizes of the 2015+ CB1100 wire-spoked rims.


(((Funny thing - I wrote a bunch of impassioned e-mails to Honda's customer feed-back / suggestions box guys, probably 2011 or 2012 - Telling 'em why they needed wire-spoke rims on the CB1100 - I also told 'em to put wire-spokes on the VFR1200R - these are the two big-bore wire-spoke bikes (sporty bikes anyhow) that they're making. Probably the only suggestion I had that they didn't follow through on, was a CB1100R that's an actual replica of the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show's CB1100R prototype. But I'm sure at some point, Harris or PAUGHCO even, will make that as a kit-frame. 'Cause I TOLD 'em too ha-ha. But yeah - pretty sure these are the same sizes, only I'M not using crappy kitschy CRUISER hubs taken off of the VT-series junk-pile!!!)))

So I guess those are two models which could illustrate this comparison?
 

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V four honda whore
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12,426 Posts

this is really cool. less sprung mass. might even work if travelis not what tou are looking for and you can use rear springs up front.

and i second last question. this thread went offtopic fast
 

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UnicycleMode
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7,580 Posts
:doh:



And I thought I was bad with giant walls of text! :nuts:



I didn't get much further than wheel sizes, spokes, etc. and gave up. Wasn't this thread about springer front ends on sportbikes? Don't do it.:fu:

I just got done putting one of those dog shit $350 springer ebay specials on a CB750C and I can safely say they are not a quality bit of kit at all. In fact, fuck springer front ends all together. There has been technological advancements in the last century that make springers a styling feature, not a quality component to a decent build. If you spend more time looking at your bike than riding it, sure, they are fine, but if you actually want a motorcycle that turns, stops, and goes as well as it looks, there is literally hundreds of options of suspension combination for almost any novice builder with an ebay account and a set of basic tools.
 
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