Wider wheel question

friland96 · 2013-06-15

OK,I have a VFR swingarm like this one Now with the stock rear wheel of course the bike is like this: (Red line represent the center line of the bike):nuts: So if I mount a wider wheel ,the wheel get a bit out of the center line of the bike Will this effect the ride on straight ?????

Sevulturus

· #2 · Jun 15, 2013

There are a decent number of bikes that actually have an offset from factory. Of course... most of them are American -made v-twin engined bikes.

Can you shave the hub enough to throw a wider wheel in there?

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friland96

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 15, 2013

Sevulturus said:
There are a decent number of bikes that actually have an offset from factory. Of course... most of them are American -made v-twin engined bikes.

Can you shave the hub enough to throw a wider wheel in there?

So a offset is not a problem at all :thumbsup:
I don`t have the wider wheel yet

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yantosh

· #4 · Jun 15, 2013

i wouldn't say "not a problem at all" , the wider wheel will mess with your handling even when aligned, much less on straights than bends granted, but even junctions will be affected.

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friland96

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 16, 2013

yantosh said:
i wouldn't say "not a problem at all" , the wider wheel will mess with your handling even when aligned, much less on straights than bends granted, but even junctions will be affected.

I Know that with wider wheels i cant turn that fast thas why I asked for just for straight

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Sideshow bob

· #6 · Jun 16, 2013

when I looked into this.....

The basic consensus was. it was more important that the wheels are aligned in the same direction.
I.E both pointing in direction of travel

The alignment centre to centre was a bit more problematic to get definitive answers for.
Max offset varied depending on who you spoke too! The answers i got varied from 3-25mm & eventually I just decided to get the minimum I could an see what happened

Strangly after finishing mine, i spoke to Harley Davidson & they were the most helpfull ....
Incidently,They also quoted the largest offsets
..... But they, as a rule of thumb said. The offset needs to be less than half the difference between front and rear wheel width. ....
I.E. on mine. < 50% (280 rear - 180 front) giving me anything less than a whopping 50mm to play with:nuts:
..... And did warn of strange tyre wear and possible odd handling carictoristics & ,off course, the lower the better

Never did actually measure my final offset properly but always had a contingency plan........
Basically I woulda gone too The next size down tyre! that woulda been easily centred :thumbsup:
........... for if I couldn't live with it. But Yan had already pre warned me about riding technique and I actually found I like having something that handles & rides totally differently from my other bikes.

The worst thing I found, other than having to re-learn riding, was hiding it! Even a slight offset makes a symetrical bike look like, either your subframes bent, or the wheels far more offset than it actually is!

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friland96

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 16, 2013

2

Sideshow bob said:
when I looked into this.....

The basic consensus was. it was more important that the wheels are aligned in the same direction.
I.E both pointing in direction of travel

The alignment centre to centre was a bit more problematic to get definitive answers for.
Max offset varied depending on who you spoke too! The answers i got varied from 3-25mm & eventually I just decided to get the minimum I could an see what happened

Strangly after finishing mine, i spoke to Harley Davidson & they were the most helpfull ....
Incidently,They also quoted the largest offsets
..... But they, as a rule of thumb said. The offset needs to be less than half the difference between front and rear wheel width. ....
I.E. on mine. < 50% (280 rear - 180 front) giving me anything less than a whopping 50mm to play with:nuts:
..... And did warn of strange tyre wear and possible odd handling carictoristics & ,off course, the lower the better

Never did actually measure my final offset properly but always had a contingency plan........
Basically I woulda gone too The next size down tyre! that woulda been easily centred :thumbsup:
........... for if I couldn't live with it. But Yan had already pre warned me about riding technique and I actually found I like having something that handles & rides totally differently from my other bikes.

The worst thing I found, other than having to re-learn riding, was hiding it! Even a slight offset makes a symetrical bike look like, either your subframes bent, or the wheels far more offset than it actually is!

I made this question for my modified Honda CX 500 that i posted in an other forum
Exacly this one

Now for now in the front i have an 140 and on rear i have an 130.Since the the bike is with drive shaft i cant play much with it so i am trying to mount a 180 or 190 on the back.so if i understanded the rule (english is not my first language) I get 20% or 20mm to move it

RIGHT?

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Sideshow bob

· #8 · Jun 17, 2013

friland96 said:
I made this question for my modified Honda CX 500 that i posted in an other forum
Exacly this one

Now for now in the front i have an 140 and on rear i have an 130.Since the the bike is with drive shaft i cant play much with it so i am trying to mount a 180 or 190 on the back.so if i understanded the rule (english is not my first language) I get 20% or 20mm to move it

RIGHT?

personally i dont think id be happy with that much but yeah, as it was put to me... you would need to be within 20mm with that set up. preferably more like 10 & 5 would be even better!
err ... not sure how you got 20% though?

An 'Tis more what you'd call a "guideline" than a actual rule..arrrrrrr!! Well, except, you don't need to be a pirate for it to apply

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friland96

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 17, 2013

Sideshow bob said:
personally i dont think id be happy with that much but yeah, as it was put to me... you would need to be within 20mm with that set up. preferably more like 10 & 5 would be even better!
err ... not sure how you got 20% though?

An 'Tis more what you'd call a "guideline" than a actual rule..arrrrrrr!! Well, except, you don't need to be a pirate for it to apply

Than thanks for the 'guideline' and about the wheel 180 is enough maybe to much because the bike is a 500cc and it`s kinda cafe racer style so it`must be able to turn quickly . I will not go with the VFR swingarm because it turned out to be impossible to mount , i'll just modifie the stock swingarm .Also wanted to ask you how does the 280 wheel feels on corners ???

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Jackstand Johnny

· #10 · Jun 18, 2013

So uh...whatcha gonna do with that VFR swinger? WINK WINK.

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Conrice

· #11 · Jun 18, 2013

okay. so maybe i just don't understand.

but a wider tire - that wouldn't add any offset whatsoever. it's from the center isn't it? and even if you're running a car rim (40mm offset with a 22mm spacer), the wheel is centered then. so a 200 would still / should be still dead center vs the stock viffer rim with a 180.

am i missing somelthing? a centered rim, is a centered rim. if you add a rim and don't center it via spacer - it'll never be centered. it doesn't depend on how wide the tire is at all

(i know once you get into the HUGE tires that you have no option to offset the rim because the tire will hit the swinger, but on moderate - even 7in. rims with a 200 or 210, it should still be centered shouldn't it?)

and for the op, without a spacer - a car rim or any other rim would never work because of the huge offset of the rim itself - i.e, the outter part of the rim would hit the swingarm before you even remotely come close to being able to bolt the hub up.

am i wrong? guys running a 40mm offset 7 in rim with a 21 or 22mm spacer still have a centered rim. so the tire they put on there (as long as it isn't above a 240 which would hit the swingarm for example) is still centered right?

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Problomatic

· #12 · Jun 18, 2013

No, wider tire, you have to push the tire further out to clear the swingarm, etc.

------
| Normal tire
------

---------
| Bigger tire
---------

Not accurate as far as sizes, but you get the idea.

I've never done it, but it seems right in my mind.

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friland96

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 18, 2013

Jackstand Johnny said:
So uh...whatcha gonna do with that VFR swinger? WINK WINK.

HaHaHaHa I'll just throw it on garbage

Just kidding I'll use it in some other bike

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friland96

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jun 18, 2013

Conrice said:
okay. so maybe i just don't understand.

but a wider tire - that wouldn't add any offset whatsoever. it's from the center isn't it? and even if you're running a car rim (40mm offset with a 22mm spacer), the wheel is centered then. so a 200 would still / should be still dead center vs the stock viffer rim with a 180.

am i missing somelthing? a centered rim, is a centered rim. if you add a rim and don't center it via spacer - it'll never be centered. it doesn't depend on how wide the tire is at all

(i know once you get into the HUGE tires that you have no option to offset the rim because the tire will hit the swinger, but on moderate - even 7in. rims with a 200 or 210, it should still be centered shouldn't it?)

and for the op, without a spacer - a car rim or any other rim would never work because of the huge offset of the rim itself - i.e, the outter part of the rim would hit the swingarm before you even remotely come close to being able to bolt the hub up.

am i wrong? guys running a 40mm offset 7 in rim with a 21 or 22mm spacer still have a centered rim. so the tire they put on there (as long as it isn't above a 240 which would hit the swingarm for example) is still centered right?

I will not go with the VFR swingarm cuz the bike is with drive shaft

My first thought was to make this kind of swingarm with two joints but I not sure

Now I think if I let the drive shaft straight and can get a small offset I'll do it

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Conrice

· #15 · Jun 18, 2013

Problomatic said:
No, wider tire, you have to push the tire further out to clear the swingarm, etc.

------
| Normal tire
------

---------
| Bigger tire
---------

Not accurate as far as sizes, but you get the idea.

I've never done it, but it seems right in my mind.

well that's wrong. your tire doesn't determine the center, your rim does. your tire is centered on the rim. look at CBRRRT's write up for a car rim conversion. it's a 200 tire and it's still plenty centered. papabear's build is centered, limitless's is centered.

mine will be centered (my spacer is 10mm too wide). but even with the car rim and a 200, i have about 15-22mm of space still - more than enough room to take the 10mm out of the spacer

so like i was trying to get at in my first post, you can center a pretty big rim. if you plan on a 240, 280, 300, etc. rear tire, then you do have to offset the rim to accompany that big of a tire. but for anything going on a cafe, or a standard fighter, there's plenty of room and it doesn't offset itself with a bigger tire. and it's wrong to assume that tire size (any other size) changes the center - like the op alluded to - it doesn't.

i rode with it offset (spacer issue, not a tire or rim issue) - and you can't tell except for letting go of the handlebars. once you let go, the bike dives to the left. i definitely can't wait for it to be centered

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Problomatic

· #16 · Jun 18, 2013

Conrice said:
well that's wrong. your tire doesn't determine the center, your rim does. your tire is centered on the rim. look at CBRRRT's write up for a car rim conversion. it's a 200 tire and it's still plenty centered. papabear's build is centered, limitless's is centered.

mine will be centered (my spacer is 10mm too wide). but even with the car rim and a 200, i have about 15-22mm of space still - more than enough room to take the 10mm out of the spacer

so like i was trying to get at in my first post, you can center a pretty big rim. if you plan on a 240, 280, 300, etc. rear tire, then you do have to offset the rim to accompany that big of a tire. but for anything going on a cafe, or a standard fighter, there's plenty of room and it doesn't offset itself with a bigger tire. and it's wrong to assume that tire size (any other size) changes the center - like the op alluded to - it doesn't.

i rode with it offset (spacer issue, not a tire or rim issue) - and you can't tell except for letting go of the handlebars. once you let go, the bike dives to the left. i definitely can't wait for it to be centered

I'm confused. Did you mean any other size besides >210 ish? Or its just wrong to assume a bigger tire will have to be offset?

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Conrice

· #17 · Jun 18, 2013

Problomatic said:
I'm confused. Did you mean any other size besides >210 ish? Or its just wrong to assume a bigger tire will have to be offset?

my point is that the rim decides everything, not the tire. so if your rim is centered - your tire will be too - regardless of size - whether its a 160 or a 210.

i was just stating - at some point though (with a 280/300 for example) - you'll run out of physical room, but again, the rim is what would dictate that. for what the OP was wanting - on a cafe bike - there's no reason it wouldn't be centered, when we have guys on here (me included) that can center a 7in. wide car rim on a vfr arm with a 200 or 210 section tire

sideshow bob's bike that he was talking about had a 280 on it. and his rim wouldn't clear the swing arm let alone the tire.

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Problomatic

· #18 · Jun 18, 2013

Conrice said:
my point is that the rim decides everything, not the tire. so if your rim is centered - your tire will be too - regardless of size - whether its a 160 or a 210.

i was just stating - at some point though (with a 280/300 for example) - you'll run out of physical room, but again, the rim is what would dictate that. for what the OP was wanting - on a cafe bike - there's no reason it wouldn't be centered, when we have guys on here (me included) that can center a 7in. wide car rim on a vfr arm with a 200 or 210 section tire

sideshow bob's bike that he was talking about had a 280 on it. and his rim wouldn't clear the swing arm let alone the tire.

I gotcha. I meant the same thing you're saying (only you know the dimensions, I was just assuming). With the wheel clearing the swingarm, I just don't know how much room you have to play with. My bike comes with a 160 rear tire, the biggest I can put on is a 180 and that barely clears (not a sssa though), so I just figured the 200 wouldn't clear the swingarm and you'd have to spacer it out to get that clearance... I bow out to your superior knowledge.

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RatFighter

· #19 · Jun 18, 2013

2

I managed to stuff a 240 under my 900RR a few months back, was using a VFR800 arm on it though. Big spacer on the hub, and a little bit of modification to the swingarm and pivot lugs to center everything up like a VFR750 arm would be. Was a real head scratcher until I got it all bolted up and the measuring, grinding, cutting and fitting, as well as the conversations with more knowledgeable and experienced builders proved that you can center up a pretty huge wheel and tire on the Honda SSSA's.

I didn't really care for the look of the 240 after all so I abandoned the project and sent it to a good home where it is still being finished, but, it proved it's possible to center a massive wheel so long as you have the space in the frame to mount the SSSA at center or a little bit over to the chain side like I did to get perfect center alignment.

uke:

(personal opinion on the look with the 16 up front and the 18 out back... I was hoping more for a "80's Honda Super Sport" look, but ended up with what was more like a poorly thought out but well executed SSSA and 240 swap. lol)

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