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HipsterKillerGarage
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6,484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, someone else mentioned that there are a lot of cats on here who would be interested in running wire wheels on their bikes, but there's a lack of availability for parts to do so.

I concur, there definitely is. About the only off the shelf option would be to get a Ducati Sport Classic hub set, and run them.

Of course, you'd need a second mortgage to do that.

So, like everything else, sometimes you just gotta make shit.

Here's MY way to tackle this problem.

WHAT YOU NEED:

1) Good math skills for finite measurements

2) Machining ability (or a damn good machinist who gives you a deal)

3) Classic Japanese/European hubs

4) New rims/spokes

5) Tires..


I've got *most* of this done, it's still a work in progress (we just had a baby boy a month ago, so things have moved a bit slower than before. lol) but I'll try to get all bases covered.

So here we go.

STEP ONE: PREPARING YOUR HUBS THEMSELVES!


If you want to run vintage hubs you're gonna need to run modern bearings.

Obviously modern axles are a larger diameter than vintage ones.

The example I'm using from my own bike is a KZ650 front hub. The forks are 2002 GSXR 600 front forks.

I took the measurements and found that the bearings needed for the gixxer axles need to be 25mm ID.

A looksie in a book at work showed me that the smallest SAFE 25mm ID bearing to run has an OD of 47mm, and a thickness of 12mm. There was one that was 43mm OD with a 9mm thickness, but that's a bit thin for something like this.

A GREAT place to get the bearings you need for this project is VXD Bearing Supply. I'll link you guys at the end here.

So, order up some bearings.

Then you'll need to measure the bore of the bearing cups on the sides of the hubs. I don't recall what the bore was in the KZ before the work, but I *think* it was around 35mm.

Sandblast your hub before you machine it, or send it to a machinist. It makes things MUCH easier to see, scribelines easier to follow, etc.

Basically, it's like boring a cylinder for a big bore kit.

You're gonna take off enough to accept the OD of the NEW bearings. In my case, 47mm. NOTE: YOU WANT A TIGHT FIT IN THERE. THIS SHOULD OBVIOUSLY NEED A PRESS TO INSTALL THE BEARINGS!


STEP TWO: SPACERS FOR THE HUBS TO CENTER THEM IN THE FORKS!


Okay, so now your hubs will mount the axle... but they're too god damned skinny!

Design some spacers to center them.

This is one place where a LOT of math will be involved, becuase it's likely that you'll need to take more off of one bearing cup than the other, so you'll need to compensate for that.

If anyone has any questions about the math to get this one, send me a PM. It's a PITA to explain.

After my math, this is what I come up with though:

PRINT EDITED OUT OF POST. CONTACT ME FOR INFO!!!


The OD of the main spacer there is the mated ID of the oil seal that will be over the bearings... the OD of the larger portion of the spacers is the same as the OD of the bearing cups in the hubs, so it will "seal in" the seal/bearing combo. The ID of the spacers is matching the axle.

The length was calculated to center the hub in the fork perfectly.


STEP THREE: SO NOW MY HUB IS ON MY AXLE, AND IT'S CENTERED, BUT MY ROTORS WON'T WORK...


BIG time machining for this one.

You need to calculate the thickness for a spacer/adapter. I call it both because it serves two purposes....

1) It spaces the rotors OUT to line them up with the calipers... and

2) It adapts the bolt pattern since there is NO 320mm floating rotor with a vintage Japanese 4 bolt pattern (Outside of Klasmos kit, that is like $500.00.)

Math is important here, because you need to calculate all this stuff.

It helps to have a stock bike with the same forks in front of you to use for one calculation.

You need to know the distance between the insides of the rotors from one to the other. We'll call this "X".

You also need to know the distance from one mounting fact on your hub to the other. We'll call this "Y".

Then lastly, you need to do the math.

X-Y/2=SPACE PER SIDE.

Let's say X is 100mm. Call Y 64mm. That leaves you with 36mm of space. Divide that in half since you need 2 sides, and you get 17mm per side.

So, your spacers need to be 17mm IF YOU ARE RUNNING A 0 OFFSET ROTOR!!!

If you are running a rotor without a 0 offset (which is likely) you simply subtract the rotors offset from the spacing.

(17mm- ROTORS OFFSET= corrected spacer thickness.)

So that takes care of the spacing of the rotor. But what about the mounting?

You'll need to adapt the pattern. In the spacer manufacture you will set it up so that the adapter/spacer mounts to the hub with countersunk allen head cap screws (I recommend stainless), and you want to have a "new" pattern drilled and threaded to mount your rotors.

Again though, MATH! Some of the old 4 bolt patterns won't work with a modern 5 bolt adaptation because some of the bolt holes overlap.

Also, the adapter should have a lip on the outside that is "rotorcentric" which means the rotor has a lip that it can slide onto before bolting on to ensure centering.

Here's my plans for the adapter/spacers:


PRINT EDITED OUT OF POST. CONTACT ME FOR INFO!!!


This is what the finished adapters look like:



Now you mount these to the hubs, and everything will line up (assuming the math was right.)

These were made of 6061-T6 aluminum. They weigh less than 1 pound per side. They are so close to the axis of rotation that the weight shouldn't make a difference even if it is slightly more.

(***You will likely need to mount these to the hubs with FINE THREAD metric all heads. These can be a real bitch to find, and when you do places will try to charge you $7.00 a pop! DON'T GO FOR IT! Go to your local honda dealer and give them the part number you can find on http://www.ronayers.com for the correct HONDA SPECIFIC allen bolt. Unlike other manufacturers, HONDA lists measurements of MOST bolts on their microfiche. ;) IF YOU ARE IN THE UK THIS WON'T BE A PROBLEM CAUSE YOU LIMEYS CAN GET UFC METRIC EVERYWHERE. haha)



STEP FOUR: LACE UP SOME FUCKIN RAD WHEELS....





These are 17's, 3.5 and 5.5 Excel Takasagos from Buchanan. They've been mediablasted now to get powdercoated, but this was the day they showed up at the shop I work at. They also have heavy duty spokes and nipples.

A quick lace up just so I could drool...




The process for the rear is almost identical to the front, as you can probably figure out.

So there it is.... all that's left is to get some rotors (6 bolt speed triples for me), bolt them on, and get everything assembled.







USEFUL LINKS:

VXB BEARING COMPANY

MMS & Accessories (metric bolts in fine thread)

RON AYERS MICROFICHE
 

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Function IS Form
19 Z900, 88 Kat11
Joined
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17,434 Posts
Great right up. The reputation flows my friend.
Anyone who has interest in doing the wire wheel conversion please post questions and comments on his article.

:haelo:
 

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HipsterKillerGarage
Joined
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6,484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
haelo said:
Great right up. The reputation flows my friend.
Anyone who has interest in doing the wire wheel conversion please post questions and comments on his article.

:haelo:
Thanks.

8 posts and I already have a reputation? ;)

By all means, ANYONE who has a question please ask away.
 

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the mad doctor
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3,399 Posts
that's a sweet write up man!! i'm gonna be running spoked rims on the bike i'm building now. i already have the front worked out (basically the same as how you did it) using a honda shadow front hub with a single floating disk from a 954 going into a set of 954 forks/trees. running a set of aluminum rims i bought for a supermoto project that i slod before it was finished. no need for a dual disk setup since the bike is going to be rediculously light. (cr450 two stroke motor in a hawk gt frame).

the biggest problem i'm having is a spoked hub for a single sided swingarm. the only stock bikes that i know of that come like that are some bmw's, and (a)- those hubs are freaking ugly (b)- they won't even come close to working on a typical single sided hub.

a few members here pointed me towards exactly what i need from some overseas sites, but DAMN it's gonna cost me a fortune, so that's on hold.

curious to see that rim/brake setup mounted in the forks. should look sweet.
 

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HipsterKillerGarage
Joined
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6,484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
skr00zloose said:
that's a sweet write up man!! i'm gonna be running spoked rims on the bike i'm building now. i already have the front worked out (basically the same as how you did it) using a honda shadow front hub with a single floating disk from a 954 going into a set of 954 forks/trees. running a set of aluminum rims i bought for a supermoto project that i slod before it was finished. no need for a dual disk setup since the bike is going to be rediculously light. (cr450 two stroke motor in a hawk gt frame).

the biggest problem i'm having is a spoked hub for a single sided swingarm. the only stock bikes that i know of that come like that are some bmw's, and (a)- those hubs are freaking ugly (b)- they won't even come close to working on a typical single sided hub.

a few members here pointed me towards exactly what i need from some overseas sites, but DAMN it's gonna cost me a fortune, so that's on hold.

curious to see that rim/brake setup mounted in the forks. should look sweet.
Get hub measurements for the interior of the single sided arms stock wheel, and the measurements for the outer portion of a 40 spoke hub and have a machinist chip something out for you. It's not too hard to design and machine a rear hub, and you could do it to incorporate all the stock retension materials too.

It's a lot cheaper than you think if you do all the work planning and drawing it up.
 

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the mad doctor
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3,399 Posts
the problem isn't in the design, i can handle that, hell, i even have a cad program if they wanted it that way. the problem is in the severe lack of machinists willing to do any work like that around here. EVERY machinist in my area is gov't or aerospace contracted and doesn't have time to do a one-off hub for me. i know, i checked. living next to the biggest navy base in the world and one of the biggest military towns period has it's downfalls. everyone is so consumed in gov't work that doing parts like that isn't worth the hassle. the one guy that i did talk to that said he could do it, quoted me a rediculous price and said i was looking at 6 months(!!!) before he could even start on it.
 

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fighter transplant in NC
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14,319 Posts
a single sider with spoked rims... hhhmm tasty, that mey have to go on my list of mods for next project
 

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the mad doctor
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3,399 Posts
i got the SSS/ spoked rim thing figured out. duh, don't know why i didn't think of it before, it's been done many a time (though usually not with spokes), including by a member here.

swap the single nut hub for a vfr 4 bolt hub, add one 17x6 fwd offset car rim, call it done. that, or find someone that has one that's bent, and relace to the supermoto rims i have. either way, it beats spending $600+ for a freakin hub from overseas.
 

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Member
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265 Posts
I was closer to being done with my bike before I read this thread.

I bought a CB750 rear hub 40 spoke disc brake unit for 20 bucks today on ebay. Got a front hub for 27. It's a dual disc hub from a 76 CB750 supersport.

$562.00 to get my stock wheel widened and now I have to tell her I'm not going to use it.
 

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the mad doctor
Joined
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3,399 Posts
haelo said:
Get yourself a Dayton gold hundred spoke man! I'll like it then :D

hahaha, i'm gonna take up some of the space i need to fill to center the rim by running a true knock off type rim yo. with a tri-bar center nut :D
 

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HipsterKillerGarage
Joined
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6,484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Newman said:
$562.00 to get my stock wheel widened and now I have to tell her I'm not going to use it.
GAH! What'd they widen it with.... gold?!?
 
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